Good idea -- I'll do that. On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 8:24 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 15:59 William Stein, <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 6:49 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 12:44 AM William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > Here's some very quick thoughts, some on topic and some off: >> > > >> > > - The original author of the software that ask.sagemath.org runs did >> > > initially do the configuration at some point long ago. He was starting >> > > a business to support instances in exchange for money. I wonder if that >> > > is still around? >> > >> > contact details, etc are here: https://askbot.com/ >> > (their own instance is running version 0.10.3) >> >> >> Thanks. It looks like the obvious thing we would have to buy would be >> his hosting service, which is $45/month and provides this (see below). >> It seems like he doesn't offer any sort of "manage your existing site" >> service anymore. An obvious question is whether or not he would also >> migrate our existing site over to his hosted service. Also, we would >> be switching from "trust Thierry for backups, long term existence, >> etc." to "trust random guy in Chile who has nothing to do with Sage >> and also trust that William can ensure the $45/month gets paid >> somehow." So it seems he doesn't really provide the service >> (namely -- help us upgrade to the latest version) that he used to >> provide, and I can see why (it is probably a pain in the butt to do). > > > they offer consulting. It won't harm to ask whether they are willing to do an > one-off job of upgrading. > > >> >> >> >> 30 day free trial >> All standard features >> SSL Support >> Single Sign On >> Up to 750 users >> Daily backups >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > If so, maybe we could pay him to update our ask.sagemath.org instance? >> > > In any case, many thanks to Thierry for maintaining ask.sagemath.org all >> > > these years! >> > > >> > > - The ziglang community has an interesting approach to the community >> > > discussion problem, which is just to welcome and try *everything* that >> > > somebody will set up, and see what sticks. They have a list of all the >> > > resources that various community members are running here, which is >> > > useful for ideas, in case there's interest in expanding what's available >> > > for Sage: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/wiki/Community >> > > My impression with zig is that the two main ways they communicate are >> > > (1) github issues, and (2) their Discord chat server, which is *very* >> > > active. Note that Discord has absolutely nothing to do with Discourse, >> > > and solves a completely different problem. We also use Discord for >> > > CoCalc, and it has a manageable steady stream of activity (in fact, some >> > > discussion there is about Sage). One aspect of Discord is that answers >> > > don't seem to get indexed by Google; it's very different than >> > > ask.sagemath.org or Discourse. I think the Sage community currently >> > > has no *active* general realtime community chat, though we used to all >> > > use IRC for Sage very heavily a long time ago, and I think Gitter was >> > > also popular at one point. There's the Zulip for Sage here >> > > https://www.sagemath.org/help-zulip.html but it's not that active. >> > > A point in favor of Discord is that it is what all the kids are >> > > currently using to discuss video games, hence they are likely to already >> > > be using it, and get notifications, etc; it's also very functional for >> > > free (unlike Slack). >> > > >> > > - Github has a free thing that is supposed to compete with Discourse, I >> > > think, called "Github Discussions". I tried encouraging people to use >> > > Github Discussions for CoCalc (see >> > > https://github.com/sagemathinc/cocalc/discussions), e.g., by linking to >> > > it in a few places, but it is totally dead. Nobody uses it. I'm not >> > > sure why. >> > > >> > > -- William >> > > >> > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 3:43 PM Thierry >> > > <sage-googlesu...@lma.metelu.net> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021 at 07:00:54AM -0800, kcrisman wrote: >> > >> > Some hopefully-useful comments: >> > >> > >> > >> > Overall, I am not sure why the project is running this server. I >> > >> > think we >> > >> > > are spreading ourselves pretty thin here. There is also: >> > >> > > - https://groups.google.com/g/sage-support >> > >> > > - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/sage >> > >> > > >> > >> > 50 questions in last 6 months - thankfully, not as many about the >> > >> > Sage ERP >> > >> > software as in the past - so nowhere near the volume of ask.sagemath? >> > >> > But >> > >> > see below. >> > >> > >> > >> > > - https://stackexchange.com/search?q=sage >> > >> > > - https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=sage >> > >> > > >> > >> > negligible >> > >> > >> > >> > Also https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/sagemath - 50 >> > >> > questions in the past 18 months. >> > >> > >> > >> > Though I haven't had time to contribute to any of these regularly >> > >> > since >> > >> > somewhat before the pandemic, my observations are twofold on this: >> > >> > 1) The same people were helping on both the SE sites and ask.sagemath >> > >> > 2) The response time and quality (and number of answers) were all >> > >> > better on >> > >> > ask.sagemath >> > >> > It's possible this has changed recently, but more likely it is just >> > >> > that >> > >> > some of the networking issues have made it less reliable, but haven't >> > >> > improved service on the other sites. Contributors to answers have >> > >> > liked >> > >> > ask.sagemath. >> > >> >> > >> An additional benefit from ask.sagemath is that is it well referenced on >> > >> search engines, so that answers posted there can be used as a knowledge >> > >> database. >> > >> >> > >> > I do notice that ask.sagemath has for some time only reported "0 years >> > >> > ago" for recent questions - I don't think the askbot developer >> > >> > (https://askbot.com) has been super productive lately and of course we >> > >> > don't have the ability to support that software as well as Sage >> > >> > itself. That seems to be more of a sticking point, though I think >> > >> > Thierry and Samuel will have some relevant comments on that. >> > >> >> > >> This "0 years ago" comes from a change in some javascript where, there >> > >> is a jump from hours to years, without knowing about days and months. >> > >> >> > >> Maybe it is fixed on another upstream branch. Note that we are still on >> > >> the 0.7.x branch since migrating requires some work. Indeed, when we >> > >> upgrade, we need to run some migration scripts that update the database >> > >> structure. Unfortunately, our database scheme is not exactly the same as >> > >> the official one since in the early years, ask.sagemath was installed by >> > >> askbot developper himself, who adapted the db to some needs (perhaps >> > >> William can say more about that). We already fixed a lots of such >> > >> things, but when i moved ask.sagemath in emergency last year from Ohio >> > >> State University to Paris North University, i updated the versions until >> > >> i fall on some database migration issue and did not go further. This >> > >> might not be that hard to fix, but it is pretty boring (one have to >> > >> understand where is the bug, do some sql to adapt our tweaked database >> > >> to what it is supposed to be, and try again to see if the migration >> > >> script pass). >> > >> >> > >> If someone from the community is willing to give a try, i could set up a >> > >> separated container, that is a duplicate of the current production >> > >> server and provide an SSH access. >> > >> >> > >> > As for sage-support, it's always surprising to me how many "customers" >> > >> > simply disappear as soon as you mention asking a question there - >> > >> > somehow they either want a Q&A site, or to ask on Facebook, or >> > >> > whatever. I don't really know why this happens, but clearly the Q&A >> > >> > sites (in toto) are necessary. >> > >> >> > >> It is a pity that sage-support is not well referenced by search engines >> > >> since there are some pretty good answers there. If i understand >> > >> correctly, on discourse it is possible to ask and answer questions by >> > >> email, so that people that prefer the sage-support way could contribute >> > >> as well. However, i think that merging ask.sagemath and sage-support >> > >> into some discourse instance and keep all links well redirected will >> > >> require quite some work. >> > >> >> > >> Ciao, >> > >> Thierry >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Finally, to anticipate a question that has come up in the past on this >> > >> > issue, I had previously inquired with a SE employee about transferring >> > >> > data, and it seems it's not really a viable option. (As a very >> > >> > tangential >> > >> > note, one could make a similar observation about Trac versus GH/GL - >> > >> > could >> > >> > one take all those very useful discussions and import them?) >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > >> > Groups "sage-devel" group. >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> > >> > send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/3ab714cf-5987-4a1d-9f99-471e616e83a8n%40googlegroups.com. >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > >> an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/20211214234339.GC5262%40metelu.net. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > William (http://wstein.org) >> > > >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > Groups "sage-devel" group. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> > > an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GBNueo5hK04X0s4jcuykF9G3P%2BjG_WdL9Ko0epostaFjg%40mail.gmail.com. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3qUz-eAF1Yg%3DN9NaGsD3VFj4sb6sVp_-PYaCThdtf2Sw%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> William (http://wstein.org) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "sage-devel" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GAFXyEzWEHWLVEoiMoF-6Hw7unwb0Zd%2Bsi6_DvreCa7WA%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq3UdJgiSacn-nRjnW_QqPMYKvHOTEu-509gqnobKGwkgw%40mail.gmail.com.
-- William (http://wstein.org) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GBaAhQ%3D_-2JsxXMzH%3DL5wdCjcZKaKOatB9DLqtbPtNmzg%40mail.gmail.com.
