Hey, Yingzhen. [snip]
I am happy with the concept of providing an initial discussion venue for such topics, but: * What does “incubation” mean in practice? I think this needs to be spelled out in the charter text because, as it stands, it is unclear where you would draw the line. Why would this not result in tens of documents being pushed to RFC on the topic of (for example) wet-string routing? How would the WG handle requests to discuss 12 new I-Ds on a new topic at an IETF? How would the WG protect the other chartered work of the working group against being swamped? I’d suggest that “particularly focusing on problem statements” be made more limiting such as, “by developing and discussing problem statement and requirements documents”, and that “prior to achieving consensus” be end-limited as “prior to determining whether there is consensus or not for the creation of a new working group.” [Yingzhen]: The "incubation" means to provide a venue for initial discussion which RTGWG has been doing already. Ideally we may give a new proposal/work one or two opportunities to present, and based on the feedback of the community we'll decide whether to continue. Use your wet-string routing example, if we really get tens of documents on the topic, and assuming they're not from the same author, I'd say most likely the community is interested in the topic. We should help to define the problem scope and recommend for a BoF before there are tens of documents on this topic. As for agenda building, we will always put WG documents on higher priority. Meanwhile we can always make use of interims and side meetings. I'm actually not too worried about getting too much work. It's way better than having nothing to work on. Regarding the charter update, I merged your suggestion. So how about something like: Incubating new routing-related technologies by developing and discussing problem statements and requirements documents, prior to determining whether there is consensus or not for the creation of a new working group. Initial topics include, but are not limited to, satellite routing, data center routing, and networking for AI clusters. [AF] This is all good stuff, and I don’t see anything I disagree with substantially. But… :-) The way to think about charter text is not just about how to guide the current (wise and competent) chairs, but how to guide the future (evil or dumb) chairs, and how to guide the highly-excitable and inventive WG participants. So, probably, we just need to cook some words that not rely on a single key word, but sets the scope and process and priority. * The text “This includes, but is not limited to” is, I think intended to say “The initial list of candidate topics is,” with an addition of “other topics may be added after discussion with the WG chairs”. But… * What does this initial list actually add? * Will you track those other topics? How do the chairs decide? What happens when an idea won’t go away, or keeps coming back? [Yingzhen]: Are you suggesting we shouldn't include this initial list? The "not limited to" meant to say we may also work on other topics. We can't predict the topics that may pop up, and recharter does have some overhead and take some time. Of course, if there is a topic that the community thinks RTGWG should work on, we can always recharter to include it. [AF] If you are saying that further topics will be added to the charter before they can be discussed (I don’t think you are saying that) then having the list would be fine. But otherwise, I think you are just making a list that will be out of date by the end of the week. So, how about, “A list of topics currently under consideration by the WG for incubation will be maintained on the WG Wiki page”? Since we just had the perceptive/adaptive routing side meeting, and since we have the AIDC mailing list, would you imagine that the day after rechartering all of that work would immediately move into RTGWG? [Yingzhen]: The preceptive/adaptive routing side meeting is actually a good example to show that efforts will also be made outside of RTGWG to figure out the problem space and whether there is something that the IETF can work on. Same for the AIDC side meetings and the mailing list where we also share the latest technology developments in the industry. [AF] Right. Two things should be clear. 1. New topics can be spun up in the RTG Area without “incubating” them in RTGWG. Thus, side meetings, I-Ds, BoFs, WG formation do not need to use RTGWG. 2. RTGWG is available as *an* option for airing new topics. However, in this particular case, when stuff has advanced on several fronts, I think there is a search for coordination advice…. - If perceptive/adaptive routing is already under RTGWG incubation, it would be helpful to know - If it is an option for the perceptive/adaptive routing proponents to incubate in RTGWG, then they need to self-organise to that end - If the AIDC list is the place to self-organise for perceptive/adaptive routing, this is *highly* non-obvious from the name of the list :-) Cheers, Adrian
_______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list -- rtgwg@ietf.org To unsubscribe send an email to rtgwg-le...@ietf.org
