Dear Alan, No problems with “Rietveld refinement” at all, despite the fact that I met Hugo Rietveld when I was a young postdoc at 1999 IUCr and he seemed rather refined to me, too. And it’s not my students I’m concerned about - they take me surprisingly seriously, on issues of refinement and (classical and modern) languages alike. 😀
Ivana On 16 Jan 2024, at 16:23, Alan W Hewat <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Dear Smudut. Potatoes in gives Potatoes out from black box software with buttons. Dear Ivana. Do you also have a problem with the shorthand expression "Rietveld Refinement"? If so, you might try my joke that Rietveld is already refined :-) I think you can use such apparent mis-statements to teach your students what is really refined - neither data nor datum. Alan ________________________________ Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics Grenoble, FRANCE (from phone) alan.he...@neutronoptics.com +33.476984168 VAT:FR79499450856 http://NeutronOptics.com/hewat<http://neutronoptics.com/hewat> _______________________________ On Tue, 16 Jan 2024, 17:17 Norberto Masciocchi, <norberto.mascioc...@uninsubria.it<mailto:norberto.mascioc...@uninsubria.it>> wrote: Il 16/01/2024 17:06, EVANS, IVANA R. ha scritto: Dear All, Data shold be NEVER refined, no matter whether "data£ is considered singular or plural. It's the model which is refined. Beyound this, "data" is plural, as it is the plural of "datum". https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/datum Norberto Dear Alan/All, I have a problem with that shorthand expression, particularly in teaching and training contexts, because students quickly equate this to “refining the data”. Countless research papers, even coming from reputable groups and published in reputable journals, contain statements that “X-ray data were/was refined…”. Being old-fashioned, I can just about take “data” in singular. However, “refining one’s experimental data points” is a different matter. Best, Ivana ********************************************************************** Ivana Radosavljevic Evans Professor in Structural/Materials Chemistry Department of Chemistry Durham University Durham DH1 3LE, U.K. Office: CG 244 Phone: (0191) 334-2594 ********************************************************************** On 16 Jan 2024, at 15:47, Alan W Hewat <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com><mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] "QPA Profile Refinement" is shorthand for "QPA (using the) Profile (method of) Refinement :-) Yes, it is the phase composition that is refined, by fitting the profile, but I see no problem with the shorthand expression. ________________________________ Dr Alan Hewat, NeutronOptics Grenoble, FRANCE (from phone) alan.he...@neutronoptics.com<mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> +33.476984168 VAT:FR79499450856 http://NeutronOptics.com/hewat<http://neutronoptics.com/hewat> _______________________________ On Tue, 16 Jan 2024, 16:38 , <alberto.martine...@spin.cnr.it<mailto:alberto.martine...@spin.cnr.it>> wrote: Il 2024-01-16 16:21 Alan W Hewat ha scritto: > > And for those who worry about pedantry, "Rietveld Refinement" is just > shorthand for the "Rietveld (method of) Refinement. It involves the > refinement of the crystal structure, not Rietveld :-) Indeed! :-) Nonetheless, whatever the analysis, the profile is never refined, it is fitted. So I would avoid the misleading use of “profile refinement”. not a big deal, just terminology. Having said my opinion, I return to silently follow this interesting discussion. Alberto ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com><mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr><mailto:lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com><mailto:alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr><mailto:lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -- Norberto Masciocchi Professor of Chemistry Department of Science and High Technology & To.Sca.Lab. University of Insubria Via Valleggio, 11 22100 Como - Italy E-mail: norberto.mascioc...@uninsubria.it<mailto:norberto.mascioc...@uninsubria.it> Tel: +39-031-2386613 Skype: norberto.masciocchi Website: toscalab.uninsubria.it<http://toscalab.uninsubria.it/> ****************************************** Hago cosas que me quitan un poco el mal gusto del vacío. Y ésa es en el fondo la mejor definición del homo sapiens (J. Cortàzar) ****************************************** Justice is nothing more than the advantage of the stronger (Thrasymachus) ****************************************** Freedom is just another word for nothing is left to lose (K. 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