Lubo
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015, Matthew Rowles wrote:
Found the selfie!
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##++##########################################++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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?
On 12 June 2015 at 01:40, Lubomir Smrcok <uachs...@savba.sk> wrote:
But not through Rietved_l as Allan has forbidden attachments :-)
lubo
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
I'll send you a copy of the selfie...
James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science
Division
National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg 217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334
-----Original Message-----
From: Lubomir Smrcok [mailto:uachs...@savba.sk]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:30 PM
To: Cline, James Dr.
Cc: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: RE: Powder Diffraction Discussion Group on
Facebook
Well,
Strictly speaking, you are wasting your time in
(formally) two different ways :-) And you shouldn't
forget to tweet about it and to take a selfie while
typing.
Lubo
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Cline, James Dr. wrote:
Not a great deal of difference between
these entities, IMHO.
Jim
James P. Cline
Materials Measurement Science Division
National Institute of Standards
and Technology
100 Bureau Dr. stop 8520 [ B113 / Bldg
217 ]
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8523 USA
jcl...@nist.gov
(301) 975 5793
FAX (301) 975 5334
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr
[mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] On
Behalf Of Darren Broom
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Young Lindsay Kay; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction
Discussion Group on Facebook
On a related note, with regard to
accessing Facebook at work, I
generally only use it to keep in touch
with friends; and I try to
avoid mixing the two. I'm sure I'm not
alone in doing this.
For work-related activities, etc, I tend
to use LinkedIn.
Best regards,
Darren
-----Original Message-----
From: lindsay.yo...@rockets.utoledo.edu
Sent: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:31 +0000
To: rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction
Discussion Group on Facebook
As one of the younger members of the
list, I would like to add a few
points.
I may never have found this list on my
own if my advisor was not kind
enough to point it out to me. I have
never seen a mailing list before
in my life :) To that end social media
outlets may be helpful for
newcomers. But I am very happy to be a
member and will gladly
learn/join whatever format is chosen. So
many people helped me get to
where I am today by kindly answering my
basic questions that I feel
obligated to do the same for other
newcomers.
I strongly believe in open-mindedness
toward the new. Regardless, I
think that social media may be most
useful for publicity and outreach
if we wish to seek out new members, but
I don't think social media
formats are friendly to discussion.
Facebook's format, for example,
would not allow for easy archiving of
replies and they would easily
become buried as time passed. Another
problem with social media is
that for those who are at work or
school, being seen on facebook or
other social media may be forbidden if
not frowned upon, even if they were
being honestly productive.
I agree that fewer streams of
consciousness are preferable. If we wish
to move at all, I propose that a forum
format may be the best for
consideration?
______________________________________________________________________
______
From: rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr
<rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr> on behalf
of Daxu Liu <daxu...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 9:06 AM
To: Leopoldo Suescun; rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction
Discussion Group on Facebook
Dear prof. Suescun,
I agree with you, and I have written to
you some times ago. You do be
an enthusiastic and generous man. Thank
you very much!
Yes, many beginners do ask lots of basic
points on crystallography and
some basic steps on how to use some
refinement programmes, and I was one of
them.
However, someone has no choice to ask
someone for help because he/she
maybe study oneself, and crystallography
is not his/her major. I was
crazy on the Rietveld method in the past
just for the interest, and I
had to write to some people for help
because I can not solve some
problems even after I searched the
answers in Google or other search
engines. I am very appreciated for those
people who helped me like you
and Dr. Toby, Brian H., and Dr.
Rodriguez-Carvajal, J. and other
respectable and kind people.
I have studied the Rietveld method for
eight years myself through the
web and reading some books, and I have
published few papers on it,
which are colsely related to my research
areas.
In a word, I feel, if you know about it
and have spare time, it will
be possible to encourage and help
someone greatly when you answer his
or her some basic questions (maybe
stupied questions,:) ).
Best regards, Daxu
______________________________________________________________________
______
From: Leopoldo Suescun
<leopo...@fq.edu.uy>
To: "rietveld_l@ill.fr"
<rietveld_l@ill.fr>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Powder Diffraction
Discussion Group on Facebook
Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather
advanced students and scientists
that are rather fanatic, not for the
kind of beginners that may look
for assistance in facebook.
One of such students will find our
discussions impossible to
understand at minimum if not simply
crazy, full of self-references,
old discussions and rivalries. We have
even read some rude replies to
students whose knowledge was evidently
far below the minimum required
to perform a meaningful refinement, or
question to the list. So maybe
it would not be advisable for a very
young and untrained student to
join our list and ask very basic
questions.
I think the facebook page will reach to
other public that will never
come to us on a first basis and probably
shouldn?t, but that will
eventually be ready for the list after
some time.
One point in favor of the facebook
discussion group or other social
media channels is that all of our
Universities and Institutes(*see
below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc,
and more and more "younger"
and not quite colleagues are using them
too, for dissemination of
careers, teaching programs, events, job
advertising, and even
knowledge, so denying that Facebook,
Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may
be of help to disseminate the Rietveld
Method in particular and
knowledge in general is like denying
reality.
I?m not going to judge if the
for-profit, business oriented attitude
of the companies that manage these
social networks is favorable for
spreading science or not (probably not),
but it may be a good idea
that we use the networks to allow
younger colleagues becoming
crystallographers to learn the science
from scientists and eventually
lead them to the Rietveld List when they
have enough knowledge to ask meaningful
questions.
Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in
Facebook and I have participated in
discussion where it is is looking for
ways to spread the knowledge by
all possible means, so I bet authorities
will salute this move towards
modern (not necessarily better, I agree)
tools.
As much as I have replied to
crystallography questions in this list
and Research Gate I?ll do the same on
Facebook, Twitter or whatever
other forum I?m at, and will suggest
students seeking for deeper
understanding to walk the way by
themselves reading books, papers and
why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive,
and eventually seeking support
from well trained scientists in the
Rietveld List. And I foresee many
links in Facebook to the
rietveld_list_archives for everyone to
use
this accumulated knowledge, while Mark
Zuckerberg tries to sell them
X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or
X-plane tickets or whatever the
automatic software that drops
advertisement in our screen understands
of what we talk about...
With best regards,
Leo
* List of important labs and
universities I found in Facebook in 1
minute
search:
https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846
298?f
ref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/usnistgov?fref=ts
need more?
2015-06-10 16:29 GMT-03:00 AICr2014
<cristalogra...@fq.edu.uy>:
Dear Colleagues,
IMHO the Rietveld List is for rather
advanced students and scientists
that are rather fanatic, not for the
kind of beginners that may look
for assistance in facebook.
One of such students will find our
discussions impossible to
understand at minimum if not simply
crazy, full of self-references,
old discussions and rivalries. We have
even read some rude replies to
students whose knowledge was evidently
far below the minimum required
to perform a meaningful refinement, or
question to the list. So maybe
it would not be advisable for a very
young and untrained student to
join our list and ask very basic
questions.
I think the facebook page will reach to
other public that will never
come to us on a first basis and probably
shouldn?t, but that will
eventually be ready for the list after
some time.
One point in favor of the facebook
discussion group or other social
media channels is that all of our
Universities and Institutes(*see
below) are on Facebook/Twitter/RG, etc,
and more and more "younger"
and not quite colleagues are using them
too, for dissemination of
careers, teaching programs, events, job
advertising, and even
knowledge, so denying that Facebook,
Twitter, Research Gate, etc. may
be of help to disseminate the Rietveld
Method in particular and
knowledge in general is like denying
reality.
I?m not going to judge if the
for-profit, business oriented attitude
of the companies that manage these
social networks is favorable for
spreading science or not (probably not),
but it may be a good idea
that we use the networks to allow
younger colleagues becoming
crystallographers to learn the science
from scientists and eventually
lead them to the Rietveld List when they
have enough knowledge to ask meaningful
questions.
Actually the IUCr (our IUCr) is in
Facebook and I have participated in
discussion where it is is looking for
ways to spread the knowledge by
all possible means, so I bet authorities
will salute this move towards
modern (not necessarily better, I agree)
tools.
As much as I have replied to
crystallography questions in this list
and Research Gate I?ll do the same on
Facebook, Twitter or whatever
other forum I?m at, and will suggest
students seeking for deeper
understanding to walk the way by
themselves reading books, papers and
why not the Rietveld Mailing Archive,
and eventually seeking support
from well trained scientists in the
Rietveld List. And I foresee many
links in Facebook to the
rietveld_list_archives for everyone to
use
this accumulated knowledge, while Mark
Zuckerberg tries to sell them
X-ray instruments, or X-files DVDs or
X-plane tickets or whatever the
automatic software that drops
advertisement in our screen understands
of what we talk about...
With best regards,
Leo
* List of important labs and
universities I found in Facebook in 1
minute
search:
https://www.facebook.com/iucr.org?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/cnrs.fr?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Institut-Laue-Langevin-ILL/148452651846
298?f
ref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DESY/103119693061304?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/MITnews?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/imperialcollegelondon?fref=ts
need more?
--
Enviado desde mi m?vil.
Prof. Dr. Leopoldo Suescun
Cryssmat-Lab/DETEMA, Facultad de
Qu?mica, Universidad de la
Rep?blica, Montevideo, Uruguay.
El jun 9, 2015 4:15 AM, "Radovan Cerny"
<radovan.ce...@unige.ch> escribi?:
Too many channels = crystallographer's
death (freely translated from
an old proverb "Too many hunters=
rabbit's death).
Rather to express my opinion that if you
have too many options where
to look for an info, you spend too much
time before you find it.
Why the troglodytes should learn
Facebook? Why do not the younger and
more up-to-date researcher use the
email?
Radovan Cerny
Laboratoire de Cristallographie, DQMP
Universit? de Gen?ve
24, quai Ernest-Ansermet
CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
Phone : [+[41] 22] 37 964 50, FAX :
[+[41] 22] 37 961 08 mailto :
radovan.ce...@unige.ch
URL :
http://www.unige.ch/sciences/crystal/cerny/rcerny.htm
-----Message d'origine-----
De : rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr
[mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr] De
la part de LUIS MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
Envoy? : mardi 9 juin 2015
08:15 ? : rietveld_l@ill.fr Objet : Re:
Powder Diffraction Discussion
Group on Facebook
hehe, well played Lubo. People can
define themselves as they wish, the
problem is the impression we produce in
others with our self-definitions.
still the more channels people have to
reach information , the best,
and as someone says before, if it does
not work it will fade out with no
damage.
Quoting Lubomir Smrcok
<uachs...@savba.sk>:
Dear Luis,
I always find weird and sort
of funny when someone cannot
accept
that some people could call
themselves troglodites
meaning that they
are not very enthusiastic
about ALL what other people
call new and
progressive or even an
innovation. This is how I
understand Larry's
comment.
Personally, though I am
younger than him I do not
feel like a
second-rate human being or
depleted of any important
scientific
information when I
completely ignore facebook
and its clones. This
way of communication or,
better, its information
contents, strongly
resembles that described in
Brave New World by A.Huxley.
Though
published in 1932, it has
been somehow ahead of the
times.
A word of warning for
facebookers : be careful,
this is a book
(check the word with any
good on-line service).
Fortunately, it is
offered also for Kindle so
no worry for being seen with
a pretty
thick piece of paper.
Best,
Lubo
On Tue, 9 Jun 2015, LUIS
MARIA RODRIGUEZ LORENZO
wrote:
Dear all,
Although not an
active player on
this list,
except maybe in
my
early days in
late
90,s,(science ,
took me in a
different
direction) I
still keep track
of what is
happening in
"the
Refinement
world" and i
would like to
add my thoughts
on this non
technical
matter.
The generation
of people called
millennials and
young scientists
among them, get
inform through
facebook and
similar. That
link them
to several
sources of
information
without
attaching them
to one
single source .
A facebook page
related and
linked to this
discussion group
could
be the gate to
new researchers
(students) to
this page and
have a
positive
influence on the
size of this
community and
their access
to the very
specific
questions and
knowledge that
are usually
discussed here.
Their
alternative can
be the use of
the potent
available
software to have
results without
guidance (e.g
after , no
sensible
responses have
been obtained
through linkedyn
or research
gate, to name
some, because
nobody with the
right expertise
is
there). It does
not have to be a
different or
parallel
discussion
group, and it
does not imply
that you have to
join or use any
new
group. it is
most likely to
have a positive
effect or maybe
just
null in the
worst scenario.
In a more
personal opinion
, i always find
weird and sort
of funny,
when people,
whose work is to
develop and
spread
knowledge, is
proud to be a
"troglodite" and
do not dare to
experience
innovation.
Facebook does
not change the
way Science
"should" be done
but it
may change the
way of
communicating .
Please dont take
offence for my
last comment ,
that is out of
my purpose.
Best regards
Luis
Quoting Reinhard
Kleeberg
<kleeb...@mineral.tu-freiberg.de>:
To
be
honest,
I
can't
imagine
that
crystallographic
knowledge
can
be
effectively
transmitted
via
facebook.
Probably
one
could
safe
time
by
reading
some
basic
textbooks
instead
of
"liking"
and
"following".
The
same
holds
for
other
"asocial"
(Lubo,
I
like
this
statement!)
networks
like
researchgate,
what
also
waste
the
time
even
of
uninvolved
people
by
spamming,
just
for
generating
profits
by
the
companies.
The
central
points
have
already
been
fixed
by
Alan:
The
advantage
of
the
Rietveld
mailing
list
is
that
contributions
aren't
anonymous,
it
is
not
commercial
and
no
use
is
made
of
users'
information,
publicity
is
limited,
and
there
is a
structured
archive
of
discussion
that
is
open
to
all,
even
those
who
don't
have
an
account.
This
is
like
science
should
be.
Alan,
thank
you
very
much
for
all
your
altruistic
efforts
with
the
list!
Greetings
Reinhard
Am
08/06/2015
um
14:00
schrieb
Davide
Levy:
I
want
say
something
more
about
my
decision
to
open
the
group
in
FB.
There
is
many
people
the
use
the
Rietveld
method
as
a
magic
black
box:
insert
the
data,
read
the
cif
of
the
phase
and
obtain
the
results.
Then
they
say
"twenty-one"
and
"forty-one"
when
they
see
a
symmetry
group!
Maybe
a
POP-group
in
FB
can
teach
more
about
crystallography
to
a
larger
group
of
scientist!
this
is
my
opinion.
Davide
-----Original
Message-----
From:
rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr
[mailto:rietveld_l-requ...@ill.fr]
On
Behalf
Of
Lubomir
Smrcok
Sent:
08
June,
2015
2:49
PM
To:
Alan
Hewat
Cc:
rietveld_l@ill.fr
Subject:
Re:
Powder
Diffraction
Discussion
Group
on
Facebook
Dear
Alan,
There
are
plenty
of
people
who
call
usage
of
so-called
social
networks
(they
are,
in
fact,
very
asocial)
"a
progress".
I
would
suggest
to
consider
De
gustibus
non
est
disputandum,
but
also
Duo
cum
faciunt
idem,
non
est
idem.
Although
I
am
not
member
of
any
of
those
asocial
nets
and
do
not
plan
to
be,
I
sometimes
think
of
the
end
of
such
services
like
Gopher.
Maybe
we
have
around
a
generation,
who
prefers
to
share
instead
of
to
search,
think
&
write.
What
a
prefect
opportunity
for
commercial
companies
:-)
Best,
Lubo
On
Mon,
8
Jun
2015,
Alan
Hewat
wrote:
I
can
understand
that
people
have
different
ideas
about
the
ideal
format
for
discussion,
and
for
some
of
us
email
may
seem
a
little
"old
fashioned".
I
suppose
we
could
also
use
Twitter
or
any
of
the
other
social
chattering
forums.
But
multiple
groups
on
the
same
subject
disperses
the
available
information,
and
it
would
be
good
to
have
some
kind
of
consensus
rather
than
individual
initiatives.
The
advantage
of
the
Rietveld
mailing
list
is
that
contributions
aren't
anonymous,
it
is
not
commercial
and
no
use
is
made
of
users'
information,
publicity
is
limited,
and
there
is
a
structured
archive
of
discussion
that
is
open
to
all,
even
those
who
don't
have
an account.
I
myself
simply
inherited
the
list,
but
think
it
worth
maintaining,
and
would
discourage
members
from
posting
to
multiple
groups
on
the
same
subject.
Alan.
(What,
me
worry
?
:-)
On
8
June
2015
at
09:24,
davide
levy
<davide.lev...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Good
Morning
I
created
the
Powder
Diffraction
Discussion
Group
on
Facebook,
to
speak
about
powder
diffraction,
Rietveld
etc..
open
for
all
use
powder
diffraction.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1087352967946225/
Davide
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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NOT
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files
to
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Send
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The
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on
http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
______________________________________________
Dr
Alan
Hewat,
NeutronOptics,
Grenoble,
FRANCE
<alan.he...@neutronoptics.com>
+33.476.98.41.68
http://www.NeutronOptics.com/hewat
______________________________________________
--
TU
Bergakademie
Freiberg
Dr.
R.
Kleeberg
Mineralogisches
Labor
Brennhausgasse
14
D-09596
Freiberg
Tel.
++49
(0)
3731-39-3244
Fax.
++49
(0)
3731-39-3129
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
Dr. Leopoldo Suescun
Prof. Agr (Assoc. Prof.) de F?sica
Tel: (+598) 29290705/29249859
Cryssmat-Lab./C?tedra de Fisica/DETEMA
Fax: (+598) 29241906*
Facultad de Quimica, Universidad de la
Republica. Montevideo, Uruguay
Ahora la cristalograf?a importa m?s
(www.iucr.org) Crystallography Matters
more.
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please do NOT attach files to the whole list <alan.he...@neutronoptics.com> Send commands to <lists...@ill.fr> eg: HELP as the subject with no body text The Rietveld_L list archive is on http://www.mail-archive.com/rietveld_l@ill.fr/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
