What I noticed over the years was that batteries made by East Penn, including the Unigy series, both Unigy I and Unigy II, are that they last just as long as they are expected to, no more and no less. We saw virtually no warranty issues with any East Penn products. Other similar batteries tended to have various cell and or total battery failures, many at much less than their expected life time. One of the worst was the newer Absolyte GP batteries, as opposed to the older Absolyte II which were better.
Brad Bassett On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:41 AM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The disparity in cycle life can sometimes be due to different test > standards for cycle life evaluation. > I'm familiar with three standards that are commonly used by manufacturers: > > 1. IEC 61427 > 2. IEC 60896-2 > 3. BCIS-06 > > The IEC 61427 standard is specifically for Solar PV applications. > > Eric Smiley (he/him) - Design Manager > > 250.703.6004 > e...@vecoop.ca > 888.386.0116 > 3-4997 Polkey Rd, Duncan BC, V9L 6W3 > viridiansolar.ca > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://viridiansolar.ca&source=gmail-html&ust=1702155901939000&usg=AOvVaw3SHpXB-WRSlzWmjpz4htqG> > > > > Viridian Solar honours the ancestral grounds on which we live and provide > services, recognising that these lands are unceded Indigenous territory. We > are steadfast in our commitment to reconciliation and acknowledge the rich > history and traditions that characterise this land that we all consider > home. > > > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 at 09:17, August Goers via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We started installing Powerwalls in 2017, so it's been a while since >> we've bought AGMs except for system maintenance purposes. That said, I'll >> second William Miller's note that Deka Unigy II AGMs >> <https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/products/deka-unigy-ii-2/>are >> very robust. Most of our AGM systems from that 7+ year old timeframe (US >> Battery and Fullrivers, mostly) need battery replacements but we have one >> 12 year old system with these Unigy II AGMs that is running strong as far >> as I can tell. I think Unigy batteries were used by cell phone station >> providers to provide backup, so you can imagine the importance of having >> top notch reliability. That said, I recall Unigy being very expensive and >> also very heavy. >> >> August >> >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 5:59 AM Blair May via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Unfortunately for both you and the client, you were not made aware of >>> their limited charging resources. $20 K is quite a few strings of the >>> Surrette L16 AGM. I too am a leadite especially w/ clients who are >>> beginning their experience w/ Off grid living. Refractometer, >>> documentation AND training. For my batteries I have used 2 manufactures in >>> my 30+ years Surrette and the Deka MK series AGM batteries, & both >>> companies are still around to support me & my clients. AGM batteries have >>> served my clients and our home very well. Now a days more solar and less >>> lead is far easier then it was in the 90s. One of the few devices, we as >>> installers have for defense of thermal runaways would be a temp sensor. The >>> few times I have seen issues w/ any battery and thermal runaway is mice >>> have chewed thru the sensor wire or it was thrown in the trash w/ all the >>> rest of BOS that came w/ the inverter or CC. With a FLA battery, is no temp >>> sensor & little to no electrolyte in the cell due to negligence. Surrette >>> in their battery manuals include min & max charge rates which are probably >>> higher then most perhaps due to their materials used in their plate >>> construction. The MK series also have specs (& engineers that are >>> available) included, as for their “MK Space Saver series despite it’s >>> upfront cost its always been great performance. >>> I often see multiple strings far exceeding manu’s recommendations and >>> poor/incorrect battery wiring. Yep big batteries can be a pain to install >>> and using buss bars to wire multiple strings can add cost but amortizing >>> these additional costs over many year battery life cycle its well worth it. >>> These days 99% of the calls I am getting is about problems w/ the >>> lithium products. You folks who are up to date on the lithium products keep >>> us leadites educated cause I / we have yet to drink the koolaid. Tump >>> >>> On Jan 12, 2025, at 4:13 PM, solareagle--- via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> One comment with regard to Rolls AGM’s. I, like yourself, have sold very >>> few AGM’s over the years, preferring lead acid. But I supplied a set of >>> Rolls AGM’s to a client who self installed and didn’t recognize the need >>> for a minimum 85a charge. His inverter/pv combination was unable to supply >>> that and the batteries sulphated within months to an unrecoverable state. >>> $20k down the drain. Most other AGM’s get by with around 50a charge. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> On Jan 12, 2025, at 12:55 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> You guys are making my point. >>> Melting the cases is not a fire. And every melted agm case is due to >>> incorrect charging mechanisms. >>> >>> But there have been some cases on this site of catastrophic lithium >>> failures. >>> >>> I am starting to see people asking about fires and lithium. >>> >>> These batteries are in the house. Not my design and not an easy fix to >>> move them. >>> >>> Thanks again >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 12, 2025, at 10:52 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I had the exact same thing happen(even down to the crowbar) with the >>> only set of full river 400 6's I've ever installed. I personally lean away >>> from agm though we've had pretty good luck with the Outback and Northstar >>> PLR platform over the year.. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 12, 2025, 9:39 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> The only thermal runaway event I've ever seen, was with AGM in an over >>>> insulated battery box. Got so hot that the cases fused to each other, and >>>> we had to pry the batteries apart with a crow bar. She wants ZERO risk of >>>> fire? She needs to live in a concrete bunker with no electricity at all. >>>> Every electrical connection, every outlet, every appliance has a risk of >>>> fire. Period. >>>> >>>> Ray Walters >>>> Remote Solar >>>> On 1/12/2025 9:39 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> >>>> I hate to be the one to say it but LFP has arguably less fire risk than >>>> agm. A short circuit in an agm could be disastrous and AGM is not >>>> necessarily any safer or less prone to thermal runaway events than modern >>>> LFP. I'd recommend a cobalt free LFP like homegrid, simpliphi, or midnite >>>> if it were me.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:38 PM jay via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I was going to try and steer her towards lithium but she wants zero, >>>>> absolutely zero chance of fire, so no lithium. >>>>> >>>>> great batteries though >>>>> >>>>> jay >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:35 PM, MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> 30KWH of LFP from discover energy, fits in one enclosure, around >>>>> $14000.00 >>>>> Enclosure is indoor/outdoor rated. >>>>> >>>>> https://discoverenergysys.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount >>>>> https://discoverenergysys.com/products/accessories/slimline-enclosure >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 3:31 PM jay via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> HI Willam >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the input. >>>>>> I didn’t know that trojan was sold, and from what you say, yeah >>>>>> scratch them off. >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s currently at 30kwh. And thats probably a good size. >>>>>> As always, cost and time is a factor. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’ll check the others out. >>>>>> >>>>>> jay >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:17 PM, William Miller < >>>>>> will...@millersolar.com> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Jay: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > What AH or Kwh level are you looking for? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Trojan was acquired by another company a few years ago and quality >>>>>> had gone >>>>>> > downhill. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Rolls is very sensitive to high temperatures. They will deny a >>>>>> warranty >>>>>> > claim if all of your parameters are not exactly right. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > For larger AH systems: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I like the Full River DC-400-2. You might be able to do a one >>>>>> string >>>>>> > installation. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Unigy II is a great system. Very robust. Hard to deliver but I >>>>>> can offer >>>>>> > tips. Lots of AH size options. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > William >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Miller Solar >>>>>> > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>>> > 805-438-5600 >>>>>> > www.millersolar.com >>>>>> > CA Lic. 773985 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> > Behalf Of jay via RE-wrenches >>>>>> > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 2:48 PM >>>>>> > To: RE-wrenches >>>>>> > Cc: jay >>>>>> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery recommendations >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hi All >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I have a customer what is set on AGM. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It been so long since I’ve bought any, wondering if there are any >>>>>> > recommendations? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The ones I’m looking at: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Rolls S6-460AGM-RE >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Full river DC-400-6 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Trojan SAES 06 375 6V >>>>>> > >>>>>> > sun Xtender brand. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > What’s interesting is the trojan has about 3000 cycles vs the >>>>>> others at >>>>>> > around 1250 cycles to 50%. >>>>>> > Im wondering if that is a marketing idea or if its real. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > thanks in advance >>>>>> > >>>>>> > jay >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> > >>>>>> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> > >>>>>> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>> try the >>>>>> > other: >>>>>> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> > >>>>>> > List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>> MD Electric & Solar Inc. >>>>> Office: 707-412-3181 >>>>> Cell: 707-684-0064 >>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com >>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & >>>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>>> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "We must all learn to live together as brothers, >>> or we all will perish as fools." >>> MLK >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
