Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches Mon, 28 Oct 2024 12:39:47 -0700

Jay,

I thought it was broken when I first saw it also but its not. I agreethat it is snail trails which are cause from chemical reaction of thedifferent components with moisture. Generally low grade module.

I don't know how many modules have snail trails. The array is 10 rows by20 columns but in the fifteen I could see four were affected.


Thanks Jon

Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com



On 10/24/2024 5:40 PM, Jay wrote:

That one cell you have a picture of sure looks suspicious to me.Especially given the good IR picture.It looks it’s physically broken, right about where a hard hat wouldrest while moving it.
That level of hot spot can’t be good.
There are two kinds of things that can look sorta the same. Snailtrails I thought were from a kind of contamination which leaves atrail of micro bubbles. It’s from the assembly process and I thinkstatic factors into it. The close up photo sure looks like this to me.
The other are micro fractures from all sorts of reasons. Actual damageto the cell which is usually visible.
Are there just a few suspicious panels or lots?

Jay
On Oct 24, 2024, at 10:55 AM, Thomas Hall via RE-wrenches<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Hello Jon.
Another thought……Was the site using the SMA combiner boxes with the3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US -10?
We have had ground faults occur there internally. If it has a greentest button inside the combiner box unit (polarity tester) …. replacethe combiner with a different manufactures equipment.
I believe the model is called SMA 1000-US-11 String Combiner w/Disconnect.
*Thomas Hall *

Solar Specialty Group INC C-33998

dba Specialty Group Electric

*808-854-9539 <tel:808-854-9539>*
thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com<mailto:thomash...@solarspecialtygroup.com>
www.solarspecialtygroup.com <http://www.solarspecialtygroup.com>

Certified Thermographer

*NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **031310-92*
*From: *RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> onbehalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
*Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2024 at 12:04 PM
*To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
*Cc: *Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
*Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

Thanks Bryan,

I do not know the PV connector types for the modules or extension cables
we have not started working on it. I need to put a plan together for the
customer first.
Good to know about the Amphenol H4 issues.

Thank You

Jonathan Dixon
Dixon Power Systems
3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
Lincoln, NE 68521
402-467-3240
j...@dixonpowersystems.com

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 16:44:51 +0000
> From: Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com>
> To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, "j...@dixonpowersystems.com"
> <j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
> Message-ID:
><dm6pr06mb509799a96435ce8318649e11e2...@dm6pr06mb5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Jon,
>
> Do you recall which PV connectors were on the modules and what theyused for extension cables?
>
> Around that time, Amphenol H4 connectors had issues due to theplastic housings failing and allowing water into the connections.
>
>
>
> Bryan Norkunas
>
> PV-Cables Inc.
>
> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>
> Ferndale CA 95536
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/<http://www.pv-cables.com/>>
>
> [cid:aa320544-f89d-44fc-a3e9-bb468c2d9953]
>
>
>
> [cid:867e1cba-ab13-4a98-9ecf-200189c32b6d] Please print only ifnecessary.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole useof the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/orprivileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure ordistribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy allcopies of the original message.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> onbehalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Cc: Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US-10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This hasbeen going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a yeargenerally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comesback to life.
>
> They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of moduleshave snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IRviews of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day whenthe utility took the IR pictures.
>
> Causes for snail trails that I found:
>
> * The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and thesilver contacts
>    *   The degradation extent of the EVA material
>    *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>
> I did find that if you have snail trails you will have microfractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arcfaults.
>
> Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>
>
> Thanks Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Dixon
> Dixon Power Systems
> 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
> Lincoln, NE 68521
> 402-467-3240
> j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0001.htm<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0001.htm>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Outlook-znsett2t.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 78625 bytes
> Desc: Outlook-znsett2t.png
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0002.png<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0002.png>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Outlook-jqwvacbt.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 2978 bytes
> Desc: Outlook-jqwvacbt.png
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0003.png<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/268e3836/attachment-0003.png>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 17:09:53 +0000
> From: Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com>
> To: "re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>, "j...@dixonpowersystems.com"
> <j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
> Message-ID:
><dm6pr06mb50977334c1aa938f24f80930e2...@dm6pr06mb5097.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Looking at the pictures again, I wonder if there might be a pinholein the back lamination that is allowing water into the module.
>
>
>
>
> Bryan Norkunas
>
> PV-Cables Inc.
>
> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1D
>
> Ferndale CA 95536
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/<http://www.pv-cables.com/>>
>
> [cid:8b840384-c5f3-42a6-b643-c70a0c8359f7]
>
>
>
> [cid:359044c7-87e0-453e-8b12-d03863f07a98] Please print only ifnecessary.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole useof the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/orprivileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure ordistribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy allcopies of the original message.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> onbehalf of Jon Dixon via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 9:07 AM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Cc: Jon Dixon <j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have a local utility with a 50Kw array installed in 2015consisting of 200 ReneSola 250w modules and 3 SMA Tripower 15000TL-US-10. They are having Arc fault code on two of the inverters. This hasbeen going on for a few years now. It happens a couple times a yeargenerally after a large rain. They just reset the code and it comesback to life.
>
> They gave me a walk through and we noticed that a number of moduleshave snail trails. I have attached a closeup picture I took and IRviews of affected module and non affected. It was a 90 deg day whenthe utility took the IR pictures.
>
> Causes for snail trails that I found:
>
> * The difference in chemical properties of EVA foils and thesilver contacts
>    *   The degradation extent of the EVA material
>    *   Water vapor permeability of the solar panel?s backsheet material
>
> I did find that if you have snail trails you will have microfractures. I did see some info that micro fractures could cause arcfaults.
>
> Finally my question is can snail trails cause arc faults also?
>
>
> Thanks Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Dixon
> Dixon Power Systems
> 3250 N 20th St  Ste 1
> Lincoln, NE 68521
> 402-467-3240
> j...@dixonpowersystems.com<mailto:j...@dixonpowersystems.com>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.htm<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.htm>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Outlook-wabazobn.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 78625 bytes
> Desc: Outlook-wabazobn.png
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.png<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment.png>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Outlook-qs0datbf.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 2978 bytes
> Desc: Outlook-qs0datbf.png
> URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment-0001.png<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20241023/42e299f6/attachment-0001.png>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org<http://re-wrenches.org>
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,try the other:> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 17, Issue 319
> ********************************************
>
>

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org<http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, trythe other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, trythe other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Module snail trails

Reply via email to