Just remember to turn off the AC coupled solar when manually starting the generator!
*Eric Smiley,* Project Manager e...@vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA <https://viridianenergy.ca/>* * <https://viridianenergy.ca/>* On Tue, 11 May 2021 at 11:25, Dave Tedeyan <d...@sungineersolar.com> wrote: > Hi All, > I talked to Sol-Ark again yesterday and thought this was certainly worth > sharing: > For this particular design, there is a whole house generator. For > generators over 10kw (this one is 13kw), they recommend keeping the > generator in its existing ATS, and feeding it in through the grid > connection. So when grid is up, grid power will be available, and when the > grid is down, then the inverter can start the generator for generator power > if need be. > > This then frees up the generator input for the AC coupled solar. With only > the AC coupled solar on the GEN input, there is better tracking of the > solar on the monitoring platform, because there is a designated input for > it. Plus, with a firmware update that they just released, the inverter can > now open the GEN input when it calls for the generator. So essentially, the > inverter is now responsible for cutting off the solar input when the > generator is on. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 9:06 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < > offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > >> Thanks! I thought this was for Offgrid and that was my mistake. >> >> Will it run a 15A table saw without losing power, or was that just too >> much expertise? I will wait 3 years on anything that is suppose to replace >> what I already use. I have a low opinion of the all in one for Offgrid >> anyways. Especially a non low frequency design. Maybe time will change my >> opinion. Thanks for the info! >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net> >> text 209 813 0060* >> >> On Fri, 7 May 2021 17:48:59 -0700, Jeff Clearwater < >> je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: >> >> Dave A. - Sol-Arks' "GEN" breaker can be used for 1 of 3 operations only >> - Generator, AC Coupling OR Smart Load (Load Shedding) So when you are >> grid-interactive (which takes up your GRID breaker) and you have PV and a >> Generator - the way to go is to have no AC Coupling - put the Grid and Gen >> where they belong and enjoy the high efficiency and smart control of DC >> Coupling, Time of Use control (for the Genny,the Grid and the Batteries) >> - all in the mid to high 90's efficiency that the Sol-Ark provides. >> >> I know Dave T that you already have an installed Enphase system that >> probably needs to be Rapid Shutdown compliant as well AND that you have a >> whole house genny - however - I still would take a strong look at the >> economic tradeoffs of rewiring the array to DC - (could install Tigo RS) - >> and splitting the whole house Gen output to the Sol-Ark and probably >> existing Transfer switch. We are just saying - now you are utilizing your >> equipment to the max! May not be economically feasible labor and >> additional hardware wise in this situation. But I surely would do the math >> and look at that tradeoff seriously - perhaps give that option to your >> customer to make the economic decision - would result in long term happy >> customer and most energy utilized with least fuel costs. >> >> I'll let that case rest! Gees! all you asked for was some relay >> advice! See what you get with this List!? too much expertise! :) >> >> Have fun, >> >> Jeff C. >> Village Power Design >> >> >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net> >> May 7, 2021 at 3:25 PM >> >> I do not know much about Sol-Arc, but one can AC couple and DC couple >> with a Radian or XW. The genset is on the genset input where it belongs. >> >> For Offgrid AC coupling is just another way to damage a battery or genset >> that does not need to be there. I suppose in a really large microgrid with >> many houses and a skilled person on site, it could be used as a second >> best method to DC coupling everything. >> >> >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar"we go where powerlines >> don't"http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> <offgridso...@sti.net>text 209 813 0060* >> >> On Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski >> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jason Szumlanski <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> >> May 7, 2021 at 9:21 AM >> I like the idea of some small amount of AC Coupled PV for off-grid >> systems when there is a known consistent daytime load. Around here the >> worst case scenario involves afternoon air conditioning in summer, so some >> WSW-facing AC coupled PV is an efficient way to cover that load and go into >> darkness with full batteries. >> >> If I understand things correctly, with a Sol-Ark you can simultaneously >> do AC coupling on the GEN input and DC coupling on the MPPTs and use the >> GRID input for the generator. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Dave Tedeyan <d...@sungineersolar.com> >> May 7, 2021 at 8:41 AM >> I would certainly agree with you all that AC coupled for off-grid is not >> the best design choice. But just for clarification, this is a grid-tied >> system where there is already an Enphase M215 system and a whole house >> generator set up. >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> >> -- >> *Dave Tedeyan, PE* >> [image: Sungineer Solar] >> 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850 >> Cell: 607-288-2898 >> www.sungineersolar.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> >> May 7, 2021 at 8:10 AM >> I have to agree with Dave on this, complex and off grid generally are not >> good together, l sugest backing up and you might consider a redesign, dump >> enphase, go directly in to the inverter DC side, now a gen set back up will >> work. Your spending more time and effort going in a bad direction. AC >> coupling for resi is not a great solution to start with and Solark even say >> that. KISS is better >> Jerry >> NABCEP PV Inspector >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridso...@sti.net> >> May 6, 2021 at 7:33 AM >> >> I would not do any of this for an offgrid client. It is against the rule >> of less is more. The whole design is flawed in my opinion. >> >> >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar"we go where powerlines >> don't"http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> <offgridso...@sti.net>text 209 813 0060* >> >> On Tue, 4 May 2021 19:24:13 -0400, Dave Tedeyan <d...@sungineersolar.com> >> <d...@sungineersolar.com> wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Dave Tedeyan <d...@sungineersolar.com> >> May 4, 2021 at 4:24 PM >> I suppose the question here is - which is the worse failure mode? >> A. Solar turning off until an electrician can fix it. >> OR >> B. Not knowing the contactor failed until it does not open when the >> generator turns on and running the risk that the solar backfeeds the >> generator and breaks it. >> >> For off-grid maybe A would be more of a concern. But for grid tied, I >> would think option B would be worse. >> >> Does anyone have a fail safe method of doing this? >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Chris Schaefer <ch...@solarandwindfx.com> >> May 4, 2021 at 1:41 PM >> Jason, >> >> A valid concern which is why I always wire them as powered open so if >> there is a failure it would transition closed or not open. >> >> Christopher >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Schaefer's >> <http:www.solarandwindfx.com> >> >> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >> *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com> ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com >> <ch...@solarandwindfx.com>* >> >> >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jason Szumlanski <ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> >> May 4, 2021 at 1:03 PM >> What happens when the contactor fails? I don't trust a NC contactor that >> is supposed to open on 240Vac coil voltage from the generator. It's not a >> failsafe solution. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Drake <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> >> May 4, 2021 at 12:08 PM >> P.S. The contactor method is even mentioned somewhere in the Outback >> literature. I've been using it for years. It is very simple and requires no >> complex equipment. It will not interfere with rapid shutdown. 40 A, 240 V >> contactors with 240 V coils are readily available and not terribly >> expensive. The 240 V output of the generator circuit provides the signal. >> >> At 10:02 AM 5/4/2021, you wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org >> May 4, 2021 at 7:02 AM >> Get a contactor with a 240 VAC coil. Connect the coil wire wires to the >> 240 V output circuit of the generator, so when the generator comes on, the >> contactor opens. Run the current from the AC coupled Enphase inverters >> through the contacts from common to N/C. >> >> --- >> >> >> >> >> On 2021-05-03 10:26, Dave Tedeyan wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Dave Tedeyan <d...@sungineersolar.com> >> May 3, 2021 at 7:26 AM >> Hi All, >> >> I am planning on using a Sol-Ark for the first time for adding battery >> backup to an existing system. It is Enphase, so clearly it will be AC >> coupled, and there is a whole house generator. When I talked to Sol-Ark >> about it, they recommended putting the generator on a time of use schedule >> to not allow it to come on during the day so that we don't run into the >> issue of the solar backfeeding the generator. >> >> I was wondering though if anyone has just used a contactor to cut out the >> solar when the generator turns on? Something like Outback's GS-AC-Gen-Kit, >> although in this case I will need something rated for just over 30A. This >> seems like a better way to allow the generator to run at any time it is >> needed, especially if it is a gloomy, snowy, winter day. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> *Dave Tedeyan, PE* >> [image: Sungineer Solar] >> 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850 >> Cell: 607-288-2898 >> www.sungineersolar.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > *Dave Tedeyan, PE* > [image: Sungineer Solar] > 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850 > Cell: 607-288-2898 > www.sungineersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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