Hi August and all, In addition to modules with UL6703 mating connectors, UL1703 has always allowed modules to be listed with only leads (no connectors attached), or with no leads at all (old school J-box). Originally leads with connectors were added to modules in the field, connected to J-boxes with bolted terminals. Factory installed leads and connectors were added by module manufacturers for convenience, not because of any Code or UL requirement. There is no defensible reason for a module manufacturer to void their warranty if a connector is cut off and replaced by an appropriate connector or splice. The word appropriate is key here since there are some modules that use proprietary connectors and even cables (ie Ac modules).
This issue is particularly important for any connector that has any damage. How could a module manufacturer suggest that a qualified person not be allowed to replace a damaged part like this? Would they replace the entire module for you? Assuming not, would they say the module should be tossed just because of this? There is no logic in the belief that replacing a connector should violate any warranty or listing, provided the person performing the work is qualified and they are using appropriate (typ. listed) parts. In fact I believe this should be part of a module’s normal maintenance procedures that should be documented in the module’s manual. If it was, that would remove any concerns over impacting the UL listing. Without this procedure being documented in the module manual, you need to get approval from the manufacturer, which some have provided in my experience. I believe if more folks kept asking this would become easier. All that said please buy good quality connectors and train your people to install them correctly, with the right (and calibrated) tools. You need good quality controls when making any electrical connection but our mating (“plug and play”) PV connectors are particularly important since they operate under such demanding conditions of duty cycle and environmental conditions. Also never mix manufacturers or types unless this combination is called out in the NRTL listing (“intermatability”). Cheers, Jason Fisher ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com> Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 11:46 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch August, We have had numerous customers successfully reach out and been given revised warranties from module manufactures, when connectors which were on the module leads could not be procured. Cheers, Bryan Norkunas br...@pv-cables.com<mailto:br...@pv-cables.com> [Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140] PV-Cables Inc. 1155 Redway Drive PO Box 2562 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-3000 office www.pv-cables.com<http://www.pv-cables.com/> [Description: Description: cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470] Please print only if necessary. NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original message. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 6:34 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch Jason - I'm curious about your statement on cutting off module connectors. Can you elaborate? Best, August Luminalt On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 7:52 AM Jason Fisher (STC) <stc.ja...@gmail.com<mailto:stc.ja...@gmail.com>> wrote: Kent, I don’t see an answer to Brian’s question about the LG module’s original connector configuration. We’re these modules actually factory shipped with one H4 and one MC4 connector on different polarities? That would be bizarre. Otherwise to back up Brian’s point about Intermatability, this is a UL 6703 term that was added in NEC2020 to specifically address this question, how can installers have confidence when they are asked to connect two different manufacturer’s mating connectors. Bottom line is don’t connect “mismatched” connectors, ever. Only connect different manufacturers, and/or different models of mating connectors if at least one of the companies produces proof of evaluation of that combination by an NRTL. Warning that this is rare at this point (those wouldn’t therefore be “mismatched”). This is a very important issue so my advice to Wrenches is to keep firm and don’t budge on this one. Also curious if you all still think you can’t cut off module connectors? We need to correct that if so. Jason Fisher ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com<mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch Brian Missing the point, yes they are compatible but as we have seen in the real world there are issues. This can give module and micro inverter manufacturers an out regarding failures and responsibility Jerry On Thu, Sep 5, 2019, 1:41 AM Brian Mehalic <br...@solarenergy.org<mailto:br...@solarenergy.org>> wrote: I don’t think “some white paper” is sufficient based on Code requirements, UL standards (6703), and verified field failures. Also see 2020 NEC® 690.33(C) - now requiring intermatability. Brian On Sep 4, 2019, at 2:06 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com<mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote: Wrenches Per some white papers connectors are interchangeable, this being said l have had arc issues as a result. FYI there are knock-offs out there to. Jerry On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:42 PM Brian Mehalic <br...@solarenergy.org<mailto:br...@solarenergy.org>> wrote: Are you saying each module has, for example, a positive factory H4 lead and a negative factory MC4 lead? I definitely know of H4 problems, both mated with H4s and mismatched. Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member (520) 204-6639 Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org SEI Professional Services http://www.seisolarpros.com On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 1:22 PM Kent Osterberg <k...@coveoregon.com<mailto:k...@coveoregon.com>> wrote: I've recently been looking for the cause of random power drop offs to zero in an Enphase M215 system with LG260 PV module that was installed in 2013. Just one inverter in a system of fourteen has been doing this. Enphase suggested moving the inverter to a different PV module and sure enough doing that proved the problem wasn't with the inverter. Intermittent zero output was being caused by the PV module. In making the inverter/module change I found that all the LG 260 modules in this system have one MC4 connector and one H4 connector. At present I'm convinced the mismatched connector is the actual cause of the problem. Anyone else ever notice find PV modules with mixed MC4 and H4 connectors? Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
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