Hi Shasta;
Sounds like you get the prize for battery box diligence. Lots of good
ideas there, although I've seen very bad things happen with steel bottom
trays for batteries.
I've also seen spray on bed liner get peeled right off by acid, so I
would go with all plastic or concrete on any inside battery surfaces.
The stepped concrete with floor drain sounds really good too.
This Pic is of a 10 year old coated steel battery pan. Tyvek suit time.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/29/2016 10:08 AM, Shasta Daiku wrote:
I have always been dismayed with wooden battery boxes used in
professionally installed power systems. It seems vey
DIYer/HomePoweresque. Where else is wood used in electrical
installations? I have on occasion built some BB plywood core boxes,
sheetmetal outer skin/ FRP inner skin/ raw edges and corners banded
with SS angle/ rubber gaskets with lots of latches.
I build boxes that are made of either plastic or metal depending on
the environment and usage they’ll see. Plastic, that is HDPE or
acrylics, I order online cut to size, or from a glass shop. 1/4”
thickness. Metal, heavy gauge sheetmetal, I have cut by fabricators,
and then coated with non-corrosive/conductive coatings by a cabinet shop.
Here are some general guidelines
-With either material, I keep the panels sized small. Less than 2’ x
2’ is nice, both for shipping and handling.
-Panels can be attached to each other using H and U channel, and angle
stock (which also gives rigidity). Lids are usually sectional rather
than a heavy
single lid. Sometimes, on plastic lids I rout rabbets on the
connecting seams so that the there is a half lap joint.
-Plastic can be drilled and tapped. I generally avoid using adhesives
because they are toxic as Hell and pieces want to slide out of alignment.
-When batteries sit on metal racks, I enclose the racks with acrylic
sheets using rare earth magnets. Magnets are attached to the acrylic
with epoxy or the
magnet will have a counter sunk hole and machine screws can be used.
-I seldom build a box with a back wall. Instead, I apply a sheet of
FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) to the wall that the box sits
against, smooth side out.
Side panels butt against, and are attached to the wall using U
channel or angle stock. This accommodates a wall that may not be flat
or a
wall/floor intersection that isn’t square. Corners, That is sides to
front pieces are made with angle stock. They knock apart by using wing
nuts or
magnets. That way the front of the box can be removed for
placement/replacement.
-I stopped using hinges for lids along time ago, when I started making
lids that were sectional. Lately I run a length of U channel against
the back wall, the
length of the box. The width of the channel is wider than the
thickness of the sheet, so that the sheet will slide in easily. The
lid section is removed rather
hinged up. You know the saying “Don’t let the lid hit you in the head!"
-Over the years I have tried a lot of coatings in my metal boxes. All
have held up well, but I have found that engine compartment type
undercoatings to be
my favorite.
-If I have a say in the power room/shed design, I will specify a
concrete slab with a shallow basin for the batteries to sit in. The
basin has a floor drain and is epoxy coated. Otherwise I have a
sheetmetal tray fabricated and have it coated. The tray is separate
from the enclosure.
-In very hard use applications I have the box made by a company that
outfits utility and work trucks with beds and boxes. These are just
large custom
“truck boxes”
-With smaller banks, I have successfully retrofitted both gang boxes
and truck/utility boxes. The simplest setup being adding some cross
members to a
$300.00 gang box so that the batteries sat elevated within. That
makes a very nice servicing height! Again interiors are coated.
Growing up, I had a lot of exposure to both industrial off-grid power
systems (mining, oil/gas, research, telecomm) and Maritime systems and
thats
where my sensibilities originated. Lately I have found myself the sole
off-grid specialist in a fairly vast area, and so what Im doing mostly
is replacing battery banks. Lots of battery banks, and lots of rotten,
corroded, nasty toxic boxes! A few weeks ago my helper and I donned
Tyvex suits, rubber gloves,
goggles, and respirators to Demo a box that was in a dilapidated and
soon to be be razed structure. The general contractor and client stood
by laughing and commented that it looked like a scene from Breaking Bad!
On Jan 28, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com
<mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
Thanks for all the replies so far. I've tried foundation
waterproofing membrane for a couple of years, but found it will
deteriorate in high acid concentrations. IT gets all gooey and
begins to dissolve. It had peel N stick adhesive, and seemed like a
good idea, until later. (it was HDPE?)
I've seen construction 10 mil plastic sheeting hold a gal of acid for
many months, so I know that at least works for acid.
The pond liner looks good as well as Roy's wall plastic, but the 1/8"
polypropylene would seem to be possibly more durable for about the
same $$. Plastic welding looks relatively easy with a heat gun and
special tip on a soldering iron, too. I'll report back on what we
actually do.
As always thanks for the input, and I welcome all further comments.
I feel battery enclosures are a somewhat neglected part of off grid
design.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/28/2016 7:06 PM, frenergy wrote:
Add to the list...I've had good luck with Grace roofing
underlayment: tough and to a degree, self-healing, sticks to itself
(and anything it comes in contact with) very well making seams
secure, easy to find at building supply store, sticks aggressively
to battery box sides without mechanical fasteners, experience has
shown it resists acid. As with other solutions, something to
uniformly distribute the weight and irregular bottoms of batteries
should be employed.
Bill
Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
www.frenergy.net
On 1/28/2016 5:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Ray,
Just a couple of weeks ago we installed a 24V HUP set in an
existing installation. We had an existing plywood battery box made
of Baltic Birch (the 9-ply 12mm thick plywood typically used for
cabinet drawer carcases) with a liner made of 40(?)-mil pond liner
material. We removed the six cells from the steel case, set the
case in place in the plywood box and lowered the cells into it.
However, the box had a non-removable 5" wide strip across the top
rear, and we needed to slide the entire 1100 pound case back about
8" in order to fit both steel cases.
Before setting the steel case in the box I sprayed the floor of the
pond liner with a layer of the new spray pulling lube from Klein
Tools, then set the steel case in place and lowered the cells.
Using a Porta-Power and some blocking, we slid the case into place
with little effort.
You might find that vinyl pond liner works well in a plywood box.
We found it at a Home Depot.
Allan
*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired),Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
**
On 1/28/2016 3:25 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
Hi All;
We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are
considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting. I've used
small premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install,
and we would want to build the box around the batteries after.
Does anyone have experience/ comments on welding plastic? The
alternative would be to just seal the seams with acid resistant
caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?)
I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting
stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting
1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will
hold up.
Thanks,
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