Phil Please confirm i have built lots of ps2 and 4 seams to always have 25's on the x240 not 20's Jerry On Mar 18, 2015 10:04 AM, "Phil Undercuffler" <solarp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The PSX-240 (independent unit in enclosure) has active cooling, so it has > a higher capacity and therefore the 25A breaker. The X-240 (bare xformer) > should have a 20A. The good news is, in OutBack Stacking the xformer is > balancing the phases, which since there are inverters on both phases means > that it typically is only processing 1-2kW or so, usually much less. > > Phil > > On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Allan Sindelar <al...@sindelarsolar.com> > wrote: > >> Kevin and Matt, >> Good advice from Matt. Just one detail: On the Outback PSX-240 (the >> independent unit with enclosure) the output breakers are 25A, not 20A. I >> suspect that the 2P >> breaker for the X-240 would be the same. As the unit often operates at >> close to its capacity, this could make a difference. >> Allan >> >> *Allan Sindelar* >> al...@sindelarsolar.com >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional >> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. >> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell* >> >> >> On 3/17/2015 2:56 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote: >> >> Thanks, Matt for the details here. >> >> I will be heading out to the site in the next little while and will >> report back what was found. >> >> Kevin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]*On Behalf Of *Matt James >> *Sent:* March 17, 2015 12:22 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping >> >> Kevin, >> >> >> >> Not sure what happened on the dropped communication, but I had responded >> to you last week with some possible answers and things to check. I think I >> made the mistake of replying directly to your email address and not sending >> to the entire Re-Wrenches forum, sorry for that as I know this is >> information that could be helpful to others as well. >> >> >> >> In any case, Tump is right -- on an existing system where everything has >> been working fine for some time but now isn’t, the key is to isolate, >> isolate, isolate. Turn off all AC input, output and transformer breakers, >> then wake up each inverter by increasing the Power Save Level Master Adjust >> one step at a time. Confirm proper AC voltage line to neutral at the >> inverter’s AC output terminals – all breakers are still open. >> >> >> >> Close the breaker to the X240 balancing transformer, then close the AC >> output breakers of one inverter at a time, starting with the Master. >> Confirm that all inverters are on and have proper voltage and phasing by >> verifying proper AC voltage line to neutral, line to line as measured at >> the AC output terminals and to the output bus bars – all inverters should >> show 120 L-N, and any inverters programmed as L1 Slaves should show 0v L-L >> to the Master and 240v L-L to L2 Slaves. L2 slaves >> >> >> >> This establishes a baseline to ensure that all the power electronics, >> magnetics, wiring and programming are working properly. >> >> >> >> Next, start the generator and close all the input breakers. Measure AC >> voltage at the inverter’s input terminals, confirm that each is seeing the >> proper voltage and phasing. Verify that the inverters sync to and connect >> to the generator, and begin to charge. Measure the AC current on both >> phases of the generator, and verify that they are balanced. >> >> >> >> Some potential issues are: >> >> 1. Bad X240 breaker. Take a spare, 20A 2 pole DIN. >> >> 2. Transformer insulation damaged, typically by overheating. >> Rather unlikely, but possible. >> >> 3. Failed or mis-wired or mis-programmed inverter, likely on L2. >> Due to the distance to the site, consider taking a replacement board set >> with you. Alternately, the system can operate on both legs with the other >> inverters, even if it’s an uneven number, through OutBack Stacking until >> you can schedule another trip. >> >> 4. Heavily imbalanced load or generator. >> >> >> >> If the charging currents on the generator are imbalanced, one possible >> solution is to disconnect the neutral from the generator at the power >> system end. This presents a pure 240v load to the genset, which will force >> the currents to be balanced on both phases. >> >> >> >> Feel free to contact me directly if you have any problems or questions. >> >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> >> >> Matt James >> >> Applications Engineering Manager >> >> OutBack Power Technologies Inc. >> >> Direct: (360) 618-4364 >> >> Cell: (360) 618-2869 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Kevin Pegg >> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2015 10:51 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping >> >> >> >> Thanks for everyone's advise on this one. I've done as much as I can >> working with the caretaker remotely and will need to attend myself with >> some test gear to fully diagnose. This site is remote (10h of driving then >> 1h boat ride). I generally make a point of avoiding Outback product so feel >> much better informed to diagnose when onsite - later in the week. Thanks. >> >> >> >> Curious what is going on with Outback's tech support. I waited on hold >> for a bit on Wednesday, then left a message for callback and am still >> waiting for that callback 3 business days later. >> >> >> >> My client is most upset that Outback can't even bother to return a tech >> call. His instructions to me are if we find multiple failed components in >> the system and not simple fixes to remove the gear and replace with >> "anything as long as it's not Outback". >> >> >> >> Will advise the list what was discovered once onsite. >> >> >> >> Kevin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]*On Behalf Of *frenergy >> *Sent:* March 16, 2015 6:38 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping >> >> Kevin, >> >> >> >> Not to add any confusion but I recently had to re-program the >> slave in a 2 VFX with Xfrmr system as it was doing the same thing...the 2 >> pole xfrmr breaker was tripping when a moderate load was on. Granted this >> was not happening during charging though. I think I changed the slave from >> OB slave L1 to OB slave L2 and all was good. It doesn't seem likely the >> programming in your case would have been messed with having been working >> well for years prior. Curious to hear though of a solution eventually. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 / 6544 fax >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Tump <t...@swnl.net> >> >> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, March 16, 2015 5:39 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping >> >> >> >> Have you turned the breaker on the t240 to the off position? One does NOT >> have to have that operational for the system to operate correctly.The old >> t240 has about the same parasitic draw as an inverter. Isolate, Isolate, >> Isolate. If the system functions correctly w/ the t240 off and the stacking >> is correct on this q stack disconnect it(the t240). Otherwise I would >> remove the inverter com cables and only connect 1 pair of inverters at a >> time, reset the mate with the correct com cables connected to P1& P2. >> Sometimes something so simple as disconnecting & reconnection the mate can >> have quite a benefit. Again I would, if you are really stuck on having the >> t240 operational, then try it with each inverter as a single unit then try >> the second set of inverters. Disconnect the #s1&2 inverters and do the >> same; connect #s 3&4 P1 & P2, to see exactly which component may be your >> problem. >> >> You are more then happy to contact me off list if you choose. contact >> info below. Tump >> >> On Mar 15, 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >> >> >> >> Wrenches >> OK if the X240 blows the fuse which is on the output of the inverter >> while the inverter is charging, excessive current must be passing through >> from one inverter and back to the output of another inverter ( a form of AC >> coupling gone bad). The time delay fits as the inverter ramps up, I would >> look at the contactors in each slave as one may be hanging or ther may be a >> bad board, easy way to test is to isolate each inverter and with a amp >> meter connected at the X240 see if current goes away in the X240 as it >> should not be doing much with light loads on the "House" side of the >> inverters. The X240 is 25 amps while the inverters are 50 amps. Sounds like >> a interesting one to diagnose. >> >> Jerry >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Chris Worcester < >> ch...@solarwindworks.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Kevin, >> >> I have seen the X240's trip off like this when theyare over loaded. >> When this was happening to us the slave inverters had blown AC boards and >> some times Control and FET boards too. We had a hard time diagnosing this >> as their green lights were on. Using a clamp on amp meter on each >> inverter's AC IN conductor while charging with the gen set allowed us to >> compare their charging currents to each other. Typically the ones with >> blown AC boards output would be close to zero amps. So the X240's were >> doing double duty and they will smoke too if the inverters aren't delta >> with. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Chris Worcester >> >> 530-448-9692 >> >> Sent from my Galaxy S®III >> >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> >> From: Kevin Pegg >> >> Date:03/11/2015 1:19 PM (GMT-08:00) >> >> To: RE-wrenches >> >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback quad stack X240 breaker tripping >> >> >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> Customer in remote location has a strange situation come up on an >> existing system installed (by others) 6 or so years go. Quad stack VFX3648. >> >> Last night gen start was triggered by low voltage - a normal system >> operation. >> >> Approx 1h into charge, they lost 1/2 the circuits in house - L2 >> de-energized. Caretaker went to check power system and noticed the X240 >> breakers tripped. Tried to reset but it tripped out right away. So he left >> it as is and called me in the morning. >> >> Here's what I've been able to determine today: >> >> - The x240 is installed to bridge L1 & L2 on the load side. >> - with master inverter on, 3 slaves off, both L1 and L2 energized so >> suggests x240 is working. >> - within 10 seconds of generator on and charging, x240 breaker trips (and >> makes L2 go dark). >> - loads are minor, ~1,000 w of misc lights and such, isn't all loaded up >> on one leg. >> >> Appreciate any thoughts to remedy. I'm not as familiar with this config >> as others. >> >> Kevin Pegg >> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. >> 37471 Hwy 16 E >> Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 >> 250-846-9888 >> Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca <http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca/> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> *t...@swnl.net* *www.SWNL.net* >> >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> >> * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* >> * 207-832-7574 <207-832-7574> Cl. 610-517-8401 >> <610-517-8401> * >> >> *Blair "TUMP" May* >> >> >> * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* >> >> >> * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & >> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > >
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