What apparent power readings are you getting?
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:11 AM, <br...@willpowerelect.com> wrote: > We dialed the inverters back to 3.6 kw charge and got a full bulk and EQ > with no breaker trip today. Finally got the SG back up to 1.275 - 1.285 > after 4 hours @ 61.5. It had me real nervous for a week, being able to get > bulk voltage but still only 1.220 - 1.223 SG. > Now looking at putting in a capacitor bank to correct some of the power > factor issues of the inverter/chargers so I can get more useable kw out of > the genset. > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > Bruce Fiero-RMI > > > > *Willpower Electric LLC* > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > From: <br...@willpowerelect.com> > Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 12:04 pm > To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Yes Chris. I've got about 42 on one leg and 35-37 on the other. The > transformer keeps the legs balanced to within about 5 amps. > > Bruce > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > From: Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 11:13 am > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > So the breaker is not the generator output breaker? > I would put a clamp amp meter on the breaker leads set on Max to record > the maximum current when it trips. > > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:23 PM, <br...@willpowerelect.com> wrote: > >> True that on the DC genset, Kevin, but more or less removes the bypass >> option. Strongly considered breaker replacement as many are susceptible to >> harmonics, but a real PIA on this generator and haven't gotten around to it >> yet. Also going to run the gen shed ventilators off the line side of the >> gen when I replace the breaker to avoid overheating when breaker trips! >> >> Bruce >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> From: "Kevin Pegg" <kp...@energyalternatives.ca> >> Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 9:39 am >> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> "Has anybody scoped ac line to VFX's under full charge load? I'm curious >> about harmonics possibly being the culprit " >> >> Yes, it's pretty nasty. This is why we stopped using Outback products for >> off-grid sites with significant use of generator charging. Not only are the >> chargers really wimpy, we found all manner of harmonics caused by the >> charger circuit. Loads ran fine on inverter; fine on generator but would >> not run at all or reliably with gen running in charge mode. >> >> It took some time to figure this out. Ended up having to tear out several >> new outback systems & replace with another brand to keep customers happy. >> >> What we have done successfully for sites where the customer doesn't want >> to replace the Outback is install a bank of external battery chargers, ie >> the Iota DLS series and use those for gen charging purposes only. >> Sub-optimal in a lot of respects but that's what happens when a client buys >> hardware and says "make it all work". A DC genset would be way more >> efficient. >> >> Another thought have you tried another breaker on the gen? Weak breakers >> do happen, have seen that on brand new gensets. >> >> Kevin >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ >> mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> ]*On Behalf Of *br...@willpowerelect.com >> *Sent:* February 9, 2014 9:28 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> >> Roger the 136-272 charge amps, and the theoretical max of 295 with this >> system. Hoping for reality of 160 - 200. Fortunately it's a 'good' customer >> with very efficient running loads, just a bit of a power tool habit and the >> hydronic heating recirc pump loads. Unfortunately, there have been 3 trades >> on site recently using power while I'm trying to get the battery filled up! >> but generally about 3x solar/useage during fair weather. >> With 3 inverters, this week I'm trying #3 with full charging, 1 and 2 at >> about 60%. #1 should carry most of the load demands, #3 most of the charge >> demand. I also found a spot in the Mate 3 to set maximum charging kw and I >> set that to 7kw. Maybe that will help gen overload. >> Has anybody scoped ac line to VFX's under full charge load? I'm curious >> about harmonics possibly being the culprit between a 12.3 kw load bank not >> tripping the breaker, and a 5-6 kw charging load tripping the breaker... >> >> Bruce >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> From: "RE Ellison" <reelli...@gmail.com> >> Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 8:07 am >> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Thanks Jay, >> We used to be able to figure the max charge rate at 25% of the packs >> capacity. That might not work with the HUP packs. >> Glad you have a manual! >> It is always a good idea to follow the directions in the manuals! >> Later, >> Bob Ellison >> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ >> mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] >> *On Behalf Of *jay peltz >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:38 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> Hi guys, >> The HUP manual specifies minimum charge rate of 136 amps, max at 272, >> jay >> peltz power >> On Feb 9, 2014, at 1:38 AM, RE Ellison wrote: >> >> >> Sounds like there is a need for a bigger generator, my gut tells me >> there is almost enough (but not quite), with 12kw to almost max the >> chargers and nothing left to feed the other loads. >> I have found that "on paper" and reality do not always mix well. >> Getting max theoretical charging capacity from solar and the generator >> at the same time is sometimes a tough nut to crack, although batteries seem >> to "like" the varying charge better than a steady max charge. That battery >> can probably absorb 420 amps as the charging max using the usual 3 stage >> charging we have with inverters, you're not getting anywhere near enough to >> max them with that generator. Powering down all the chargers 30% or so (or >> 1 inverter totally) would help stop the breaker trips but slow the charging >> off the generator. Then you just need to pray for lots of sun. >> Is the solar alone enough to power the loads in the normal day to day >> usage in a best case situation, or is this a case of the generator has to >> run to keep up? >> Up here we have seen 1 sunny day in 3 weeks, we know about generator >> usage..... >> I can't speak on the HUP's. I have never used them, but might they be >> somewhat hard to charge? >> Just some thoughts, but it's 3 am and I hope it makes sense in the >> morning when I reread it.... >> Later, >> Bob >> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ >> mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> ] *On Behalf Of *br...@willpowerelect.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 1:29 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> Hi Larry, >> I have an FNDC in the system. Manufacturer wanted 2 hour EQ before >> adding water to the new battery. We got that and had SG between 1.260 and >> 1.275 on all 24 cells. Cells were very thirsty (shipped with electrolyte >> almost to the plates) and took 8.5 gallons between all cells. We aren't >> having much trouble getting voltage back up but SG is below 1.23 (within >> .01 on cells tested). Strategy at this point is to give a daily bulk and >> absorb and EQ every 3 or 4 days for extended times and monitor SG. >> Discontinue hard charging when SG plateaus. I generally shoot for c/10 >> charge current, and nervous about barely c/20 and a 12kw genset only giving >> me about 5. >> Bruce >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP >> From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" >> <la...@starlightsolar.com> >> Date: Sat, February 08, 2014 11:50 am >> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Hi Bruce, >> Please explain "feeding it properly". Charging any lead acid battery >> slowly actually preserves battery life. As long as you are achieving the >> recommended charge voltage (temperature compensated) for long enough time, >> and reaching 100% SoC regularly, you are caring for the battery. >> At 82kWh battery capacity and 6.5kW PV, the customer may have a hard >> time getting to 100%. You did not mention, but I HOPE you have a battery >> capacity meter in the system. It's mandatory if they want to care for the >> battery. Since the customer has a small generator, they need to realize the >> limitations and reduce their loads during generator time so you can use the >> full output. >> Larry >> On Feb 7, 2014, at 11:46 PM, br...@willpowerelect.com wrote: >> Hi All, >> 3 VFX 3648 >> 2 FM 80 >> 6.5 kw solar >> 12 kw generator >> PSX 240 on generator output and VFX stacking >> Mate 3 >> HUP 1690 ah >> System design considering 45 amp charge current from each VFX >> totaling 135 amps. (135 x ~55v = 7.42kw) Potential charge current from 2 >> arrays and FM 80's, 90 - 100 amps. On a good day, reasonable to expect 200+ >> amps? >> Have not been able to exceed 90 amps for more than 30 minutes, with >> the generator putting out about 9 kw before it's 70 amp 2pole breaker >> trips. L1 42 amps, L2 37 amps. 5 amps neutral. Load banked to 12.3 kw (51 >> amps @ 240v) resistive without breaker trip. >> I have had to dial back the maximum charge current in the Mate 3 to 12 >> amps each on two of the inverters (L1 and L2) and 8 on inverter 3 to keep >> the generator from tripping out when customer turns on the microwave or >> coffee pot. In effect, 42 amps charge @ 240 v = 7.6 kw. At the battery, I'm >> only seeing 80 amps of charge current. Running loads are typically less >> than 1 kw but there has been a of construction going on with chop saws and >> compressors creating annoying spikes that are easily handled by the >> inverters when the generator is off. >> I don't want to kill this new battery by not feeding it properly! I >> would have put in a larger generator, but the owner bought the 12 kw before >> deciding on the new battery. I thought the 12 would be merely adequate, but >> not so.... >> Any suggestions? >> Thanks! >> Bruce Fiero-RMI >> >> >> >> <sigimg0.jpeg> >> >> >> s.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >> ------------------------------ >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3697/7076 - Release Date: 02/08/14 >> ------------------------------ >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3697/7076 - Release Date: 02/08/14 >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> ------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > > -- > Chris Mason > President, Comet Systems Ltd > www.cometenergysystems.com > Cell: 264.235.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts
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