So the breaker is not the generator output breaker? I would put a clamp amp meter on the breaker leads set on Max to record the maximum current when it trips.
On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 2:23 PM, <br...@willpowerelect.com> wrote: > True that on the DC genset, Kevin, but more or less removes the bypass > option. Strongly considered breaker replacement as many are susceptible to > harmonics, but a real PIA on this generator and haven't gotten around to it > yet. Also going to run the gen shed ventilators off the line side of the > gen when I replace the breaker to avoid overheating when breaker trips! > > Bruce > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > From: "Kevin Pegg" <kp...@energyalternatives.ca> > Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 9:39 am > To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > "Has anybody scoped ac line to VFX's under full charge load? I'm curious > about harmonics possibly being the culprit " > > Yes, it's pretty nasty. This is why we stopped using Outback products for > off-grid sites with significant use of generator charging. Not only are the > chargers really wimpy, we found all manner of harmonics caused by the > charger circuit. Loads ran fine on inverter; fine on generator but would > not run at all or reliably with gen running in charge mode. > > It took some time to figure this out. Ended up having to tear out several > new outback systems & replace with another brand to keep customers happy. > > What we have done successfully for sites where the customer doesn't want > to replace the Outback is install a bank of external battery chargers, ie > the Iota DLS series and use those for gen charging purposes only. > Sub-optimal in a lot of respects but that's what happens when a client buys > hardware and says "make it all work". A DC genset would be way more > efficient. > > Another thought have you tried another breaker on the gen? Weak breakers > do happen, have seen that on brand new gensets. > > Kevin > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ > mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > ]*On Behalf Of *br...@willpowerelect.com > *Sent:* February 9, 2014 9:28 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > > Roger the 136-272 charge amps, and the theoretical max of 295 with this > system. Hoping for reality of 160 - 200. Fortunately it's a 'good' customer > with very efficient running loads, just a bit of a power tool habit and the > hydronic heating recirc pump loads. Unfortunately, there have been 3 trades > on site recently using power while I'm trying to get the battery filled up! > but generally about 3x solar/useage during fair weather. > With 3 inverters, this week I'm trying #3 with full charging, 1 and 2 at > about 60%. #1 should carry most of the load demands, #3 most of the charge > demand. I also found a spot in the Mate 3 to set maximum charging kw and I > set that to 7kw. Maybe that will help gen overload. > Has anybody scoped ac line to VFX's under full charge load? I'm curious > about harmonics possibly being the culprit between a 12.3 kw load bank not > tripping the breaker, and a 5-6 kw charging load tripping the breaker... > > Bruce > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > From: "RE Ellison" <reelli...@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, February 09, 2014 8:07 am > To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Thanks Jay, > We used to be able to figure the max charge rate at 25% of the packs > capacity. That might not work with the HUP packs. > Glad you have a manual! > It is always a good idea to follow the directions in the manuals! > Later, > Bob Ellison > *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ > mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] > *On Behalf Of *jay peltz > *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > Hi guys, > The HUP manual specifies minimum charge rate of 136 amps, max at 272, > jay > peltz power > On Feb 9, 2014, at 1:38 AM, RE Ellison wrote: > > > Sounds like there is a need for a bigger generator, my gut tells me > there is almost enough (but not quite), with 12kw to almost max the > chargers and nothing left to feed the other loads. > I have found that "on paper" and reality do not always mix well. > Getting max theoretical charging capacity from solar and the generator > at the same time is sometimes a tough nut to crack, although batteries seem > to "like" the varying charge better than a steady max charge. That battery > can probably absorb 420 amps as the charging max using the usual 3 stage > charging we have with inverters, you're not getting anywhere near enough to > max them with that generator. Powering down all the chargers 30% or so (or > 1 inverter totally) would help stop the breaker trips but slow the charging > off the generator. Then you just need to pray for lots of sun. > Is the solar alone enough to power the loads in the normal day to day > usage in a best case situation, or is this a case of the generator has to > run to keep up? > Up here we have seen 1 sunny day in 3 weeks, we know about generator > usage..... > I can't speak on the HUP's. I have never used them, but might they be > somewhat hard to charge? > Just some thoughts, but it's 3 am and I hope it makes sense in the > morning when I reread it.... > Later, > Bob > *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ > mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > ] *On Behalf Of *br...@willpowerelect.com > *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 1:29 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > Hi Larry, > I have an FNDC in the system. Manufacturer wanted 2 hour EQ before > adding water to the new battery. We got that and had SG between 1.260 and > 1.275 on all 24 cells. Cells were very thirsty (shipped with electrolyte > almost to the plates) and took 8.5 gallons between all cells. We aren't > having much trouble getting voltage back up but SG is below 1.23 (within > .01 on cells tested). Strategy at this point is to give a daily bulk and > absorb and EQ every 3 or 4 days for extended times and monitor SG. > Discontinue hard charging when SG plateaus. I generally shoot for c/10 > charge current, and nervous about barely c/20 and a 12kw genset only giving > me about 5. > Bruce > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP > From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" > <la...@starlightsolar.com> > Date: Sat, February 08, 2014 11:50 am > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Hi Bruce, > Please explain "feeding it properly". Charging any lead acid battery > slowly actually preserves battery life. As long as you are achieving the > recommended charge voltage (temperature compensated) for long enough time, > and reaching 100% SoC regularly, you are caring for the battery. > At 82kWh battery capacity and 6.5kW PV, the customer may have a hard > time getting to 100%. You did not mention, but I HOPE you have a battery > capacity meter in the system. It's mandatory if they want to care for the > battery. Since the customer has a small generator, they need to realize the > limitations and reduce their loads during generator time so you can use the > full output. > Larry > On Feb 7, 2014, at 11:46 PM, br...@willpowerelect.com wrote: > Hi All, > 3 VFX 3648 > 2 FM 80 > 6.5 kw solar > 12 kw generator > PSX 240 on generator output and VFX stacking > Mate 3 > HUP 1690 ah > System design considering 45 amp charge current from each VFX totaling > 135 amps. (135 x ~55v = 7.42kw) Potential charge current from 2 arrays and > FM 80's, 90 - 100 amps. On a good day, reasonable to expect 200+ amps? > Have not been able to exceed 90 amps for more than 30 minutes, with the > generator putting out about 9 kw before it's 70 amp 2pole breaker trips. L1 > 42 amps, L2 37 amps. 5 amps neutral. Load banked to 12.3 kw (51 amps @ > 240v) resistive without breaker trip. > I have had to dial back the maximum charge current in the Mate 3 to 12 > amps each on two of the inverters (L1 and L2) and 8 on inverter 3 to keep > the generator from tripping out when customer turns on the microwave or > coffee pot. In effect, 42 amps charge @ 240 v = 7.6 kw. At the battery, I'm > only seeing 80 amps of charge current. Running loads are typically less > than 1 kw but there has been a of construction going on with chop saws and > compressors creating annoying spikes that are easily handled by the > inverters when the generator is off. > I don't want to kill this new battery by not feeding it properly! I > would have put in a larger generator, but the owner bought the 12 kw before > deciding on the new battery. I thought the 12 would be merely adequate, but > not so.... > Any suggestions? > Thanks! > Bruce Fiero-RMI > > > > <sigimg0.jpeg> > > > s.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > ------------------------------ > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3697/7076 - Release Date: 02/08/14 > ------------------------------ > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3697/7076 - Release Date: 02/08/14 > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts
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