Steve,
Good information. Thank you. I would like to see SMA offer a low temperature line of inverters in the States. I believe that is arbitrary and foolish to demarcate Canada as COLD and the USA as NOT AS COLD. The northern tier US states from the Rockies east get damn cold while Canada's British Columbia is balmy by comparison (at least where it's heavily populated). Could we simply purchase the Canadian inverters here? Thanks for listening, David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jefferson Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:02 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps Afternoon Wrenches, All SMA models in the US are rated for -25C (-13F). Canadian models are rated for both -25C and -40C. I highly recommend if installing in areas with any extreme temperatures, to build an enclosure around the units. Sometimes with the wind chill factor temps can be quite more than just the ambient temp. Installing in a conditioned building is always ideal though. I talked with an installer in New Jersey who had a system that was not turning on until late morning. He went out with in early morning with and took the temperature from one of the caps and it was about -30 F. We figured out that this extreme cold was caused by the north to south wind hitting the inverter, mounted on the backside of the ground mount. He built a little wall to protect from the wind, and the problem was solved. SMA America, LLC Steve Jefferson Sr. Technical Service Specialist, Sunny Family 6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714 U.S.A. Tel: +1 916 625 0870 Fax: +1 916 624-2445 Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free) Email: steve.jeffer...@sma-america.com www.SMA-America.com <http://www.sma-america.com/> This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 6:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps Dave, That is really good news. I went through this with Steve Jefferson and SMA recently. They said that -13F was the limit. Steve has posted to this effect on the list, but I couldn't find it in the archives. The recommendation was that I get a Canadian model, but was not able to. Where we are, it seldom gets below zero, but has historically gotten to -26 officially, and according to many it has gotten below - 30. The customer has agreed to shut down the outdoor unit if it gets below -10F. It would be good to know that SMA's recommendations are over cautious. What is the coldest you have seen your inverters operate at? Thanks, Drake Drake, Before installing Sunny Boys outside I did some checking several years ago. I spoke with some installers in cold locations in the USA and also spoke with contacts at SMA. The word back then was although the manual states -13F, they felt the SB's would be OK outdoors here in Vermont. I also go the go ahead from Solectria and Fronius. James Worden, top boss at Solectria said -40F. The Fronius engineer told me that the electronics in their inverters were basically the same components that they use in their welders, and that the welders sit outside in Siberia, in the winter. We try and install inverters in the basement, or garage, whenever possible but have many outdoors with no problems so far. All Earth Renewables have been installing hundreds of trackers here in Vermont and they all have Sunny Boys mounted on the pole. Best, Dave From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> ] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps The SMA inverters will suffer capacitor damage if operated below -10F, from what I've been told. Do you have different information? At 09:19 AM 1/15/2012, you wrote: Hello David, The minimum temperature rating for grid-tied inverters is dependent on the manufacturer's specifications. It's a choice they make as a part of the product design and certification. The manufacturer must specify the coldest temperature as a part of their UL1741 certification effort, and that's the coldest to which it will be tested and verified as operational by the UL certification laboratory (NRTL). Will it operate below the min temperature spec? It might. But then again, it's not verified to do so. Some bad things can happen if the components don't handle cold very well, and power is applied (such as actual failure of parts.) Quality electrolytic capacitors are generally rated to -40C (which also happens to be -40F). Film caps are often rated for temperatures below -40C, but at -40C, other components such as microprocessor clock crystals and many integrated circuits will fail to operate, so the point of film caps being rated for colder temperatures than electrolytic caps is moot. Note this is "fail to operate", not "fail". Cold-temperature components rated to -55C *could* be used in inverter construction, but parts of this type add cost (sometimes considerably) to the finished product price. By the way .. to your point of cold temperature specs not appearing in writing ... Our PVAC Modules *are* rated to operate at -40C, and have been tested to that temperature by the UL test lab. This rating is stated in writing in our brochures as well as the PVAC Module Installation Manual/User's Guide. Dan --- On Sun, 1/15/12, Dave Palumbo <d...@independentpowerllc.com> wrote: > From: Dave Palumbo <d...@independentpowerllc.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolytic Caps vs. Thin Film Caps > To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 7:32 AM > Dan, > > Any worries with inverters located out in 30 below zero > temps with either Electrolytic Caps or Film Capacitors? > It's very cold here this AM (minus twenty something F) > and it makes me wonder about all the inverters, both > micro's and string, outside in cold weather areas. We've > been told in the past by SMA, Fronius and Solectria that > we should be good down to 40 below, although this is > typically not found in their technical documents in > print. > > David Palumbo > Independent Power LLC > 462 Solar Way Drive > Hyde Park, VT 05655 > www.independentpowerllc.com <http://www.independentpowerllc.com/> > NABCEP Certified PV Installer > Vermont Solar Partner > 24 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV
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