The advantage of having NABCEP is that it at least creates the idea and maybe lays the groundwork for licensing provisions for solar installers. Here in Massachusetts, we still can't pull our own electrical permits. And by the way, that's BECAUSE of the electricians union. The whole thing has actually gone South quite a bit but that's another story. As far as I know, in most other States with significant RE programs, us solar bozo's can at least wire back to the inverter under their PV license. Did it not take an extra year for California to get the million solar roofs initiative passed because the C-10s commandeered the bill? So from my perspective, if it's less hassle we want, we want NABCEP to become stronger.
My two cents, Conrad Cotuit Solar -----Original Message----- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad As PV becomes more and more mainstream, more and more organizations (including state licensing boards, unions and other certifying bodies) will weigh in on the subject of certifying installers for PV installation. We also have Professional Engineers that can provide expert opinions on the subject of sound engineering design. I think one of the more interesting conflicts (in California at least) is the insistence by some AHJs (and clients) that certain work be performed by a licensed electrical contractor (C-10 in CA) as opposed to a licensed solar contractor (C-46). Gosh, some schools require a C-10 license to teach PV design and installation! It is my understanding (and I am prepared to be corrected) that there is nothing in the C-10 license requirements (experience, skills, examination) that would argue that the holder of a C-10 license has any PV-specific knowledge, such as design of a PV system (orientation, shading, string sizing, proper PV ampacity calculations, maximum and minimum system voltages, proper loading analysis, anchoring and attachment of PV systems on roof tops), commissioning/troubleshooting or calculation of annual energy production, or financial metrics such as payback and IRR. But I digress. As for NABCEP certification, there are of course different levels and different specialties. If we stick to the Entry Level exam for PV installers and the (full-up) Certified Solar PV Installer (of which I have some knowledge) -- I think both have their value. An individual who passes the Entry Level Exam demonstrates that they have a certain level of knowledge about solar resources, PV system design and installation, system performance, troubleshooting, safety practices, and some financial metrics. What it doesn't deal with is experience and practical skills. If I were contemplating hiring for an "entry level installer" position, I would give considerable weight to some one who passed the Entry Level Exam. I would of course also evaluate the individual's skills and construction trade experience. As for the Certified Solar PV Installer, the requirements to sit for the exam include a significant amount of actual hands-on PV installation experience. There are a number of ways to qualify and I think that NABCEP has recognized a fairly broad number of "paths" to demonstrating this experience. There is recognition of academic instruction but it must be coupled with hands-on experience. There is also a code of ethics and requirements for continuing education as a requirement for recertification. And then there is the exam. I can vouch for the fact that the exam is thorough and difficult. As an anecdote, when I took the exam not one single person left the exam before the end of the time period. I won't hazard a guess as to the "pass rate", perhaps someone else can provide some insight. With all this work that NABCEP has put into standards and certification, I would expect them to promote the value of their standards and certifications. (full disclosure: I haven't seen the ad in Home Power; could someone provide me with issue and page number?). Is "insist" too strong a word? I don't know. I hear advertising all the time like "Insist on genuine DELCO parts!" Somehow I am not offended by that advertising slogan. Do we deny NABCEP the right to advertise or advocate? Do we hold them to some higher level of behavior (if so, I can't figure out how to characterize what is appropriate or inappropriate). I can image a situation where I was comparing two installers (installation companies) and both had the proper licensing, insurance, experience (at least three years in the business and 100 kW of installs), multiple references and the proposed PV systems were comparable, then the NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer wouldn't carry that much weight (but it just might be the tie breaker). On the other hand, if I were looking at two installers each with barely two years of experience and a ten installs, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer might get my business. I just had an interesting situation come up about a month ago. We ran up against another installer. He was working for a brand new company (lot's of them out there) and he himself had a two-year technology degree from a Community College and was a NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer. We couldn't figure out how much experience he had, but his C-10 license was only two years old and he claimed to be a sole-proprietor without any employees on his state license declarations -- up until 9 months ago. This guy was long on theory and short on practice. Trying to sum up my various thoughts: the NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer is crucial when comparing (1) relative newcomers to the PV installation business, (2) electrical contractors or general contractors for whom PV is not their principal business, and (3) two otherwise equally qualified individuals or companies. Having said all that, Larry, why wouldn't you want to study the NABCEP PV learning objectives, perhaps take a course focused on preparation for the exam and take the exam? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -----Original Message----- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:13 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad Hello Wrenches, NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you are certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of us are not yet certified. NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think so. I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them to stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like to me to lose business. They disagreed with me. Am I being too sensitive here? Thank you. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
