HI all I have had a similar problem when I tried to use a relay to control load where the relay switch caused a a disconnect of the AC coupled inverter. I think that perhaps the abrupt switch of load causes a voltage spike
But I am not sure. I think that Logan's approach using a Morning star Tristar, in stead of a relay to control load may be the solution, but I am not sure.. --- On Mon, 4/20/09, boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> wrote: > From: boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem > To: > Cc: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 11:42 AM > boB Gudgel wrote: > > Mark Dickson wrote: > >> Hi Bob, From what I understand the "State > 108" code means that the grid frequency is out of > whack. > > Frequency and voltage windows are both related to > anti-islanding detection, so I don't doubt you would > receive this message. > > I would be surprised if the error was not a result of > a high impedance (weak) grid at the inverter. Lowering the > voltage at > > the inverter, like, tapping down a transformer if > possible (industrial installation?) may be one answer. I > remember Daryl > > Thayer had to do that on one of his grid tie (not AC > coupled) installs to fix this sort of problem. > > boB > > > > Ooops ! My mind went islanding there on that xformer > tapping idea ! > (Battery based, not grid tied) > > However, if you are using an OB FX you can lower the AC > output voltage. That is another > option that may help. OR, try a larger inverter with a > lower output impedance. It will be harder > for the Fronius to "think" the grid frequency is > being pushed out of the limits. > Also, have you taken your multi-meter and looked to see > what the AC voltage is around the time > the relays trip and errors occur ? Curious to hear what it > is. You might try to look at the frequency > also, but it may not be out of Fronius' window limit > long enough to get an accurate reading. > > boB > > > > > > > > > > >> It was explained to me by Fronius techs that: > the IG sends out pulses that if the grid is in good shape it > is absorbed into the grid. If the frequency is off then it > bounces back to the IG triggering the State 108. > >> Your response does give me something to think > about though. . . > >> Mark Dickson > >> Oasis Montana Inc. > >> 877-627-4778 toll-free > >> 406-777-4321 (0830 fax) > >> www.oasismontana.com > >> www.grid-tie.com > >> www.PVsolarpumps.com -----Original Message----- > >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf > Of boB Gudgel > >> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:42 PM > >> To: RE-wrenches > >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem > >> > >> Mark Dickson wrote: > >> > >> >> the array output climbs above 3000 or so > watts, we continually get a “State 108” code and shut > down cycles each time a relay trips on a diversion load... > >> > >> Sounds to me like your diversion load may be too > small and/or the grid is weak at the Fronius end. When the > diversion loads suddenly go away due to > >> their "relays tripping", the > Fronius', having lots of power to sell, raising the AC > grid voltage right out of the UL1741 / IEEE Voltage window > limit (132V ?). > >> It hen has to shut down and disconnect in order to > stop the apparent islanding condition. That's probably > what state 108 is trying to tell you ? > >> > >> Looks like your Fronius inverter is most likely > working just fine ? > >> boB > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Larry, > >>> > >>> I am having a somewhat similar problem with a > recently installed IG5100. I have it installed in > conjunction with an Outback battery based system for AC > coupling. We have it set up to divert its loads to an > electric ice melter and then to a large electric heater as > the battery voltages climb. A third relay cuts the array > power between the Fronius and the AC panel if the battery > voltage continues to climb to unsafe levels. > >>> > >>> When we have heavy sunshine and low house > loads (second home) and the array output climbs above 3000 > or so watts, we continually get a “State 108” code and > shut down cycles each time a relay trips on a diversion > load. I have worked with both Outback and Fronius (who have > been great!) but at this point we are all baffled. I think > my next step, especially after reading the above post is to > replace the Fronius. Then as a last resort swap the IG5100 > out to a couple of SMA 3000US’s (a 6000US does not > configure well with the 28 evergreens). > >>> > >>> Any input from you guys would be greatly > appreciated! > >>> > >>> Mark Dickson > >>> > >>> Oasis Montana Inc. > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> > >>> *From:* > re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *William Miller > >>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:59 PM > >>> *To:* RE-wrenches > >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 > problem > >>> > >>> Larry: > >>> > >>> We've installed about 20 IG/LV series > inverters. Some failures required only replacement of GF > cards, most required replacement inverters. We've had > several DOA when new, one was replaced by Fronius with a > rebuild even when we warned in writing that we would not > accept a rebuild (it had multiple KOs pulled in the chassis > -- just not acceptable). As of right now, we have 7 in > non-operational status awaiting replacement. No kidding. > >>> > >>> There maybe be one or two that have not > failed, but this is offset by those that have failed > multiple times. The biggest failure rate is of the 6 LV4550s > on an exterior north wall 2 blocks from the beach > (http://millersolar.com/Portfolio/Commercial/Voler/voler.html). > These have been replaced three or four times each and are > coming out as soon as we finalize the paperwork, with 3 10K > Plus series inverters going in. This will require extensive > rework, but we are being paid for our time. The Fronius > staff has been very nice, but pretty slow to respond. > >>> > >>> I hate to report bad reviews to this forum, > but it is what it is. > >>> > >>> William Miller > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> At 02:51 PM 4/19/2009, you wrote: > >>> > >>> William, > >>> > >>> 100% of what quantity? Are there any special > conditions that may have contributed? Were they minor > problems? > >>> > >>> Larry > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >>> > >>> List Address: > RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> Options & settings: > >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> List rules & etiquette: > >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>> > >>> Check out participant bios: > >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Options & settings: > >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out participant bios: > >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Options & settings: > >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out participant bios: > >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
