Ron -
Tech support is open today and should be able to help you troubleshoot this in a step-by-step process that will discover the root problem. I am a bit confused by the descriptions of the events and have the following questions and comments: When you tested just the inverter without the generator running - you stated that there was a noticeable flicker every 20 seconds - did you also notice that the yellow "AC INPUT" light would blink and then turn solid momentarily? This usually indicates that there is a cross connection of the inverter's AC output with the AC input wiring - which can be caused by many different problems (nicked or chewed wires, water filled junction box or conduits, miswiring of a 240VAC load, etc. - or an internal problem with the inverter). In a nutshell - the inverter is "seeing" its own AC output at its AC input - so it connects and then tries to charge from itself - which causes the AC output voltage to decrease - and then it drops the AC source for another 20 seconds - over and over... When the generator was connected to the inverter - was the varying AC input voltage viewed on a digital test meter or on the MATE's display? The voltage display on the MATE will vary until the inverter has actually connected to the generator since the inverter is not locked onto the frequency of the generator. The fluctuation of the AC voltage on the MATE is more pronounced if the frequency of the generator is way off from the 60hz nominal. Check the voltage and the frequency at the inverter's AC input terminals with a good quality true-RMS meter with the generator running but not connected. Is this a 120/240VAC "split phase" generator operating with only one inverter on it? It is possible that an internal connection in the generators windings has fried due to overloading one output leg of the generator - its similar to a bad solder joint where the voltage is OK until current is pulled and then it opens up. You might try putting the inverter on the other leg to see if you see the same issue. I agree with the multiple problem theory that was suggested - it sounds like the generator is having a problem maintaining good voltage (or more likely a high enough frequency probably) and then there is some type of voltage feedback occurring when the generator is not connected. Be sure to check the frequency of the generator when seeing issues like this - its often the problem. Let us know if you need more assistance Christopher Christopher Freitas Director of Research and Development OutBack Power Systems, Inc. cfrei...@outbackpower.com <mailto:cfrei...@outbackpower.com> Tel 360 435 6030 Cell 360 202 4239 19009 62nd Ave NE Arlington WA 98223 USA www.outbackpower.com <http://www.outbackpower.com/> ________________________________ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:39 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX input voltage cycling I would also look at the loads. From an earlier post of yours it appeared that the system ran more normally when not connected to the house loads, but still cycled. Could something on the load side be shorting, or could there be a huge load trying to kick on that doesn't really start? It may well be a situation where two (or more) things are going on simultaneously. My approach would be to continue to isolate components and run several different tests on all components. Good luck Drake At 08:51 PM 12/28/2008, you wrote: This thread seems to have died ... somehow it got mixed in with the "strings of different orientation" thread. If anyone has further input I would very much appreciate it as I have to schedule a long trip to remedy this and want to have as much ammunition as possible. Again, to restate the problem: an Outback VFX3524 inverter installed on an E-panel in a remote off-grid location. Voltage at the inverter input terminals is fluctuating between 110 & 140+ volts continuously. AC in will not connect so batteries can't charge. Output voltage measured at the inverter output terminals is steady at 122v. When all household loads are turned off the input terminal voltage stabilizes but AC In still does not connect. Generator does not seem to be at fault as output measured at the gen. is stable even under load. System was working for about 1 1/2 years but under new ownership has been badly monitored and batteries have become totally discharged. I'm trying to determine if this is a circuit board problem so I can perform a rescue mission by pulling some boards from an in-stock inverter, Outback tech support are on holidays. Anyone had a similar problem? Mick, referring to there's not an auto-idle switch on that genset which may have accidentally been set for auto, is there? His generator was actually running in idle mode, operating the household loads when I got there and the first thing I discovered was that the voltage was ~90 volts coming in to the inverter. I manually switched the generator to full speed and then checked the voltage again, that is where I found the rapid fluctuations occurring at the inverter. Ron On 27-Dec-08, at 1:23 PM, mick abraham wrote: Ron wrote: "The owner told me...that someone had wired a switch incorrectly and when he turned it on the system "shut down". He then re-wired it and everything appeared ok but I'm wondering if this fried a board." Mick replies: I've seen several times with Outback and other brands (going as far back as the Trace SW) where the inverter responds to an accidental short circuit in the household wiring by shutting itself off quicker than a circuit breaker can open. I'll bet that is what your customer experienced...possibly due to a nicked hot wire in that new switch box shorting out to ground. I suspect that (part of your customer's report) is completely unrelated to your present problem scenario. If it was my headache I would beg, borrow, or...rent a second generator to insert temporarily instead of the Honda 3800. That's the most conclusive way to determine fault or no-fault on the generator. Sometimes a genset will operate non-inverter loads OK and will exhibit normal looking voltage etc. but there still could be transients or spikes which render this input AC power unacceptable to the inverter/charger. Thinking...there's not an auto-idle switch on that genset which may have accidentally been set for auto, is there? Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com <http://www.abrahamsolar.com/> Voice: 970-731-4675 Hi Mick & Jay, I disconnected the gen. line to the inverter and tested the output and got steady voltage. I then re-connected the inverter and tested the gen. output from a different outlet and got steady voltage, both around 122v. So I've ruled out the generator. It was my first suspicion. I have also noticed that when the household loads are off the inverter output appears stable, doesn't fluctuate except about every 20 seconds inverter audibly, the voltage drops from around 120 to 110 then resumes - as if the input was momentarily dropped. Darryl, I did play with the AC charge current lowering it to around 5 aac but it didn't seem to make a difference. The owner told me, as an afterthought that someone had wired a switch incorrectly and when he turned it on the system "shut down". He then re-wired it and everything appeared ok but I'm wondering if this fried a board. I know there is an ac control board in there ... could this be it? BTW, it's a very small generator, Honda 3800. Ron _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 740-448-7328 740-856-9648 MESSAGE CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, is confidential, and may also be protected by attorney-client or other privilege. 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