Sorry you lost me. What's a red herring? I said if you compare tires of similar construction, narrower is not faster. Paselas are a great example since they come in or have come in 700x23,25,28,30,32,35,37. Among those tires, all with similar construction, mounting evidence shows that there is remarkably little difference in roll down speed or perceived effort to keep those tires moving.
I know you run ~3" wide street tires, but we're talking about a Cannondale touring bike. He can't run 60s. He should run the widest tire his bike will take. You advised him to consider the narrower range of tires for his bike, because that's faster, and I'm saying that is not the case. He could run 25 paselas, and he could run 32 paselas. I'm saying the 32 paselas would be no slower. The Soma New Express that is a close cousin of the Pasela is another great example because that's the tire my son compared. He did extensive roll down tests with 26x1.25 and 25x1.75 and there was no significant difference. Wider is no slower if the tires are of similar construction. Furthermore, lower pressure was no slower. We were down at <10psi, and we could hear the tire squishing on the pavement, and yet the rolldown tests showed that it was not measurably slower. I was shocked. Compare supple with stiff tires and then its night and day. You me and Jan all agree on that. On Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:35:59 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: > > Yes, but this is a red herring, since we are talking about Marathons > compared to Paselas, and folding Paselas at that. > > Sure, if you use his 42 mm 650B Extra Legeres you'll have bulk, pudge, and > speed; but the narrower 622 (23, 26, 29, 32) models are also claimed to > roll very well. > > Jan's (editor of BQ) comparos show very clearly that is is casing quality > -- ie, suppleness -- that is the principle factor in low rolling > resistance; see the Spring '13 issue. In fact one of the fastest > conventional tires was the Michelin Pro Race 2, the 25 mm model. Even the > slower 23 mm model was in the top third, IIRC. > > I ride fat tires on pavement; I mean very fat tires: the Big Apple > Liteskins on my Fargo's fat (44 mm rims) wheelset measure 61 mm, and the > older wire beads measured 65 mm. And I ride them at low pressure: as low as > 12 psi in front. And the BAs roll well for their bulk. But man, let me tell > you that neither roll faster on pavement, rough or smooth, than a Pasela! > > FWIW, a very nice rolling tire with puncture belt is the 622 X 35 Kojak; > but that has no tread. > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:21 PM, William <tape...@gmail.com > <javascript:>>wrote: > >> "I want to point out the option of narrower -- meaning faster or, less >> effort required -- tires." >> >> Mounting evidence says this is not the case. Narrower is empirically not >> faster in controlled experiments. Famously by Jan Heine, and repeated on a >> much smaller scale by my 6th grade son in his science experiment. His data >> showed that wider tires of similar construction are no slower and that >> lower pressure is also no slower. He won the science fair. >> >> >> On Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:03:58 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >>> I agree to a point, though I've commuted on bad city pavement (eastern >>> Copper, NE, and adjacent streets, including the Fairgrounds, here in ABQ, >>> NM -- pretty rough stuff) with Paselas, and in fact much narrower, with no >>> problems wet or dry (175, with loads). I want to point out the option of >>> narrower -- meaning faster or, less effort required -- tires. >>> >>> I do realize that we each choose the compromise that best suits our >>> tastes. >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:58 PM, Christopher Chen <cc...@nougat.org>wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, this is true, Patrick, but he said he rides on some crappy (or >>>> poor) roads, where volume matters. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> I believe -- this is a suggestion, not a pronouncement -- that tread >>>>> and rubber quality are more important than width. >>>>> >>>>> Come to think of it, I also commuted with 26X32 mm Paselas and, while >>>>> I did not find these sturdy, they posed no problem in the rain. Note that >>>>> I >>>>> don't ride often in the rain, but when I do, it tends to be in downpours, >>>>> and our runoff system is deliberately primitive, meaning that when it >>>>> rains, water gushes down the sides of streets. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Christopher Chen <cc...@nougat.org>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I would ride the biggest Schwalbe Marathon's you can. I currently >>>>>> run 700C x 38, but I think your C-dale will probably only take up to >>>>>> 28s? >>>>>> In either case, I've done some "accidental" test runs, and they're >>>>>> pretty >>>>>> good (as long as you stay on the tread--the sidewalls don't corner too >>>>>> well >>>>>> on wet cobblestones :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Peter <peterd...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi everyone. Please tell me what tire and width of tire you'd >>>>>>> recommend for a novice commuter riding on wet (rainy) and poor city >>>>>>> streets. I find that I don't feel very safe on wet streets and thus >>>>>>> suffer >>>>>>> a loss of confidence unless I ride quite slowly--obviously I want to >>>>>>> keep >>>>>>> riding and improve my skills. At the moment I'm gearing up to buy a new >>>>>>> bike from Rivendell, but haven't yet decided on the model. My current >>>>>>> bike >>>>>>> is a Cannondale touring bike. >>>>>>> Many thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>>>>>> group/rbw-owners-bunch<http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> "I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com. >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch<http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> http://resumespecialties.com/**index.html<http://resumespecialties.com/index.html> >>>>> patric...@**resumespecialties.com >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**patrickmooreresumespec/<http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Albuquerque, NM >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@**googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch<http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@**googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/**group/rbw-owners-bunch<http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> http://resumespecialties.com/**index.html<http://resumespecialties.com/index.html> >>> patric...@**resumespecialties.com >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/**patrickmooreresumespec/<http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/> >>> >>> >>> Albuquerque, NM >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to >> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > > http://resumespecialties.com/index.html > patric...@resumespecialties.com <javascript:> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > > > Albuquerque, NM > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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