'Scuse the poor editing. Ignore text below "Clear...".
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:01 AM, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is what I do to use one bike, set up to be comfortable with bars
> at a certain height, as a model to get comfortable on another bike,
> where I want the bars at a considerably different height.
>
> First, read Peter Jon White and get your optimum saddle fore-an-aft
> setup, along of course with the optimum height and tilt. Or, at least,
> get these three positions in a good-enough-to-start-from setup.
>
> **Now** you are in a position to decide what you want to do with your
> handlebar.
>
> Next, consider the variables affecting saddle nose-to-bar reach. Type
> of saddle? The B 17 is considerably shorter in the nose than a Flite,
> say, so that the reach measurement is going to be different by the
> amount of the different lengths. Second, the tt length: a 59 cm c-c tt
> will give a longer reach, ceteris paribus, than a 57 ditto. But wait!
> Is the Bleriot's tt slanted? Then a 3* upslope 59 cm tt won't be
> exactly 2 cm longer in effective length than a level 57 cm tt.
>
> And there is more! If the B has a slacker seat tube than the S, that
> also will affect effective reach -- and if the st angle is slacker
> than the ht angle, this difference will be even larger. Thus, my
> erstwhile 56, 2010 model Sam Hill had a sta of 71*, a sloping tt of 59
> cm and a ht angle of 73*. So, I guess, the effective tt length was
> something like 60 c-c.
>
> The two Riv customs have slightly sloping 57 tts and 73* parallel
> angles; thus the effective tt is about 56.5.
>
> I wanted to "feel" the same on the SH as on the customs but I wanted
> the bar higher. How much higher? Not sure, but at least saddle nose
> height. I got the (Flite, same model) saddle in the same location as
> on the other Rivs, then took the same distance (~20.5") from saddle
> nose to center of bar clamp, which gave me an arc of
> distance-cum-height where the reach would be the same. I located the
> SH's bar on this arc and stem'd accordingly. (Actually, I lie: I
> didn't want to bother with changing the 10 cm SH stem (the customs
> have Nitto 8s) so I simply positioned the bar higher on the SH than I
> would have with a shorter stem: about 2" above saddle nose. And then!
> Since the bar was a longer reach (much longer drop mitigated by slight
> reverse bend on the flats) 46 cm Noodle instead of 90 mm reach 185,
> AND since I was using longer-hood Tektros instead of pre STI Dura
> Aces, the bar had to come back a bit -- thus had to be moved a wee bit
> higher.
>
> Current Fargo: same 57 upsloping tt only with a much greater slope.
> Bar level with saddle, thus 3 cm higher than on the customs. Tektro
> levers. More or less by serendipitous muddling I came up with (1) a
> certain number of spacers under the stem, (2) a certain angle and (3)
> a certain length. Since my next door neighbor offered me a nice
> Ritchey stem that was short and flat, I found that it worked even
> better than the much more upjutting and longer stem (positioned with
> all spacers over it). Saddle nose to bar clamp just a bit longer, to
> take into account largely the longer reach Tektros; the reach of the
> 42 (this time) Noodles isn't all that much different from that of the
> 38 cm Maes Parallels.
>
> Oh, it's complicated, and it takes fiddling to get things just right,
> but the above method does allow you to use one setup as a rough model
> for another quite different setup.
>
> And, note too, that your body will compensate for those last few mm
> that you can't get exactly identical. On the Fargo, riding in the
> hooks is easier than on the customs: I can ride 7 miles nonstop in the
> Maes's hooks without difficulty, 10 if I insist, while on the Fargo,
> thanks to the higher (but not exactly proportionately higher! The
> drops are deeper!) I can go indefinitely.
>
> Clear, huh?
>
>
>
> Next, if the tt on the B is longer than that on the S, that also will
> affect reach, so that different stems may be necessary; EXCEPT that
> shallower seat tube angles will mean that a given top tube length
> brings the top head tube race, and thus the stem quill, closer to the
> saddle. Thus (for another example) my erstwhile Sam Hill had a 59 c-c
> tt compared to the Rivs' for-me-perfect 57; but then, the 71 st on the
> SH meant that the effective tt length compared to the other Rivs' was
> considerably shorter; I guess about 58. And bars 2" higher took care
> of the rest.
>
> I use a plumb line and identical saddles to start with 3" behind
> center of bb axle, this after getting the height and tilt more or less
> the same as my model. After than it is a matter of riding, adjusting
> f-and-a, and then adjusting height and tilt as needed.
>
> Only ***then*** do I set up my bar reach.
>
> Thus: My Rivs have the Flites' noses about 3" behind the center of the
> bb axles; then the bar is set for (nowadays) about 3 cm below saddle
> nose; and then and only then do I determine what stem I need to get --
> tho' I know from experience it is going to be between 8 and 9 cm for
> these bikes.
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM, lungimsam <john11.2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was told that my Specialized BG Fit I got at my LBS for my race bike 3
>> years ago would be transferrable to all bikes. I was told the fit is for
>> maximum power, efficiency, and safety. Why not have safety, efficiency, and
>> max power when I ride the Bleriot, too? So I thought I would set up the
>> Bleriot the same, except with the Bleriot drop bars
>> so-high-that-they-could-kiss-the-sky on my Technomic stem.
>>
>> I figured the reach, saddle fore/aft, and saddle height I would keep the
>> same as the pro fit.
>>
>> But it doesn't work with the Bleriot.
>> With the saddle height the same, and the reach the same, the saddle fore/aft
>> is like 2cm further behind the BB center (which is one of the measurements
>> on my BG Fit).
>>
>> So I have 3 choices:
>> 1. Set SH and Fore/aft according to BG fit and get a 2cm longer stem
>> extension to equalize the reach. But I am 5'7"-ish and an 11cm extension
>> would be wierd for me, as I am used to 9 and 8 cm extensions on stems. I
>> think of anything over 10cm extensions for 6-footers.
>> 2. Chuck the BG fit and revert to KOPS, since everyone before pro-fits
>> started seemed to be fine with that.
>> 3. Throw out my pre-conceived notions of bike fit and ride, boldy ride with
>> whatever is comfy.
>>
>> What d'yall think?
>>
>> BTW - I am guessing I am already throwing out aspects of the BG fit by
>> raising the bars so high on the bike. But, for my un-racer bike fit, step
>> one is raising the bars to max height. And that is non-negotiable for me as
>> I love how great it is with the bars high.
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> "Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
> -- Claude Cockburn
>
> -------------------------
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> -------------------------
--
"Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
-- Claude Cockburn
-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-------------------------
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