I think we may be talking past each other on this thread to some extent. Riv posts SOH for a certain wheel diameter and tire size simply as a measurement like seat tube and top tube and chain stay lengths. Where the cyclist comes into play is with pubic bone height (PBH). If someone has taken this measurement carefully with the assistance of a helper, it can be used in conjunction with the charts to get a good idea which frame sizes are going to work and which ones aren't. The best comments I've seen so far have to do with top tube length. As frame sizes increase so does top tube length, so if you select a frame size that you can just barely stand over with comfort and safety you'll wind up with a top tube that may require you to select a shorter-than-ideal stem length for your bars, which can affect handling to some extent. OTOH, if you select a smaller frame which is comfortable for your PBH, you'll wind up with a shorter TT length that can be compensated for to some extent be selecting a longer stem. But if someone with a arms, legs, and torso don't "fit the norm", so to speak they can wind up too scrunched up or too stretched out on the bike causing them to compensate by changing components, as mentioned above. Sometimes that can work out well and other times is doesn't.
Now, all of this assumes that road drop bars will be used. If a different style bar is selected for a more upright riding position that changes the entire picture. All I was trying to say is that I've read numerous posts over the years with lamenting cyclists saying they wish they'd selected the next size smaller frame and may thus are often trying to sell the one they have now...because "the people at Riv had talked them into the larger one." And I don't understand that. On Friday, April 11, 2025 at 2:37:28 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote: > Which was the point I was trying and evidently failing to make > > On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 10:03:35 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: > >> "We're not all the same proportionately to our height and I don't >> understand why Riv keeps referring customers to ever higher frames based >> entirely on their total height, ignoring their bodily proportions." >> >> Riv recommends frame sizes to people based on PBH, not total height. >> >> Joe Bernard >> >> On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 12:34:31 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >> >>> I would advise a word of caution here. I'm 5' 9" (well, I used to be - >>> I've lost an inch as I've aged) and I ride a 54cm Ram. I also have an old >>> rebuilt Fuji from the early 70's in "21 inch" size. Both work well for me >>> in stand-over height. BUT (and it's a big but), early-on in the "bike boom" >>> 70's several bike shop owners talked me into a bike with a 23" frame >>> (metric sizes were not popular back then) and all of them were miserable. I >>> had to buy a much shorter stem for the bars and I couldn't stand over the >>> top tube without being tippy-toed, something that could've been hazardous >>> in certain situations. All of the bike shop owners who sold me those bikes >>> advised that I'd need the next larger size frame, therefore the 23", in >>> order to "stretch-out" more. Nothing could've been further from the truth. >>> >>> Worse yet, over the years Grant & Co. seem to have advised accordingly. >>> But the big, big, BIG thing they're ignoring, overlooking, whatever are >>> *individual >>> differences!*! Yes, I'm (was) 5'9", but my legs are disproportionately >>> shorter than my torso, therefore standing over a 54cm frame is much, much >>> better than just a reference to my total height! We're not all the same >>> proportionately to our height and I don't understand why Riv keeps >>> referring customers to ever higher frames based entirely on their total >>> height, ignoring their bodily proportions. >>> >>> On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 2:12:24 PM UTC-5 [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hmm ok. Seems like the 50 would be too small for me then >>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 3:04:02 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm similar height to you both, rode a 54 Ram and 55 Romulus >>>>> comfortably with dropbars. If you want Albas or similar you're going to >>>>> need a 56 but your standover will be nil and the seat will be slammed. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, April 10, 2025 at 11:21:31 AM UTC-7 [email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks that’s helpful! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 10, 2025, at 1:41 PM, Toshi Takeuchi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am 79.5 PBH and I rode the 54 Ram. I think the 56 would be too big >>>>>> for you. 50 seems small, but a 52 would likely work but had 26" wheels? >>>>>> I >>>>>> think the best Ram is a 650b (700c converted) Ram. >>>>>> >>>>>> Toshi in Oakland >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Apr 10, 2025 at 10:09 AM Maeve Gately <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey everybody, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been searching for a Homer or similar, in the 51 range (5' 6", >>>>>>> PBH about 80) and came across a 50 Rambouillet. I can't tell from the >>>>>>> size >>>>>>> charts online if it would be around my size, or if they were made much >>>>>>> smaller than the current Riv models (one size chart I found makes it >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>> like I'm a 56 in the Ram). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone have any guidance here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6411a8bc-4660-4243-9520-0d50d118c019n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6411a8bc-4660-4243-9520-0d50d118c019n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/yFazhe03ao4/unsubscribe >>>>>> . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAGB59xzUe0%2BBPpif75LZxLgbgjWrkO7__Z5b9K8mBCeWT6BouA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAGB59xzUe0%2BBPpif75LZxLgbgjWrkO7__Z5b9K8mBCeWT6BouA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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