Leah's bicycle is superior to the roadies bicycles. That is an opinion but happens to be correct. Thank you Marc for this thread as it highlights the fact that you don't have to follow the crowd or group-think (pun intended) to succeed. I suspect some other riders in Leah's group would very much enjoy a Rivendell and Leah's courage to show up with such a different bike and perform well gives them confidence to try it. Doug
On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:00:27 PM UTC-4 amill...@gmail.com wrote: > I like club rides. Hanging with the A group is fun. Even getting dropped > by the A group is fun. As long as you come back next week. > > My first Wednesday night ride I saw a guy on a white powder coated, fixed > gear Jeunet. I thought that was the coolest. > > The next week I left my cannondale at home and rode my fixed RB-2. I got > dropped. I rode it again the next week. I got dropped again. I rode it the > next week and hung with them. It was awesome. Having a community is > important. > > I think everyone should ride whatever they want. Riding should be fun and > competition should be fun. Nothing wrong with it. > > As a side story, my petty officer used to call us Annie Oakley if we sat > sideways at our watch console in the Navy. I’m wondering if Leah has some > magical 90° crank that allows her to sit sideways (and if she’s a crack > shot.) > > Comfort can be described in different ways. On my fillet brazed plus bike > with Bosco bars and a brooks, I feel quite comfortable cruising with my kid > in the Mac-ride. I do not feel comfortable trying to go fast. > > On my roadie Protovelo with drop bars, I feel quite comfortable going > fast. I do not feel as comfortable with the kid on it. > > I want both of these bikes. I’m happy I have both of them. I don’t want > cruiser bars on the proto or drop bars on the cruiser. > > I’m glad this list can support both. I’m glad Riv can support both. > Rivendell is a part of the bicycle industry, and just like the industry > they have to make new things and sell new ideas to stay afloat. In the 90s > that was 28s and lugs and brooks. Now it’s long chainstays and Bosco bars. > I’m glad they’ve done both. > > Best, > > Aaron in El Paso > > > On Jul 28, 2022, at 18:42, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Oh, George, I hope your question to me was sincere and not “crotchety” > because I would love to answer you. > > “What’s the point?” > > Inclusion. Encouragement: If I can do it, you can too. I cannot be the > only one who rides a Rivendell and wants to be part of a local bike > community but feels unwelcome. I hope someone on this list decides to try > out their local club after reading about the Racing Platypus. That is the > whole point of my club ride thread. Sprinkled with some amusement. And, I > think it’s healthy for the local club to have a Rivendell in it. I’m happy > to spread Grant’s influence; it’s a healthy way to ride a bike. > > I moved across the country and I wanted bike friends. I didn’t know how I > would be received at a club ride, was uncertain I could succeed in one. > What if I was unskilled? Too slow? Not accepted? My Platypus is supremely > comfortable, gorgeous, and just right for me. If I can’t ride my Platypus > in a club ride, I don’t want to be in the club. As it turns out, you *can* > ride your Rivendell in a club (Marc has done it for years) and you are not > automatically slow and unwelcome just because you do. All but the fastest > riders are good to me (the 18+ mph guys ignore me). I ride with nice > people on carbon bikes and we really enjoy each other. And now several of > them have expressed interest in getting their own Rivendells. > > “But does that make your upright bars and long wheelbase superior to > theirs?” > > Maybe. Depends on what you value. If I can do the same job on a bike that > allows me to wear whatever clothes I want, look at the scenery and keep > pace with the rest, that’s superior by my definition, and that’s why I’m > riding a Platypus and not a Trek. > > I’m sure the roadie would think their bike superior to mine. That’s ok > with me. And tomorrow I’ll be riding with them and we’ll have a great time. > But I’ll be more comfortable and riding a prettier bike. > > Leah > > > > On Jul 28, 2022, at 7:08 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > "....But to your point, who here has ridden both types of bikes and can > honestly say which is faster? Maybe it *is* the drop-bar, short wheel based > bike, but I’ve never ridden one, so I can’t say..." Well I, for one, have > and continue to ride both types of bikes and have no reason to negative > either one; they both have their legitimate purposes. But if you want to > say that one is either just as good or superior to the other then I have to > stop and shake my head a bit. Again, as I replied to Bernard, what's the > point? If you can ride with the "roadies" as you call them and keep up > with them, fine. But does that make your upright bars and long wheelbase > superior to theirs? I hardly think so - it's all a matter or riding > position and what it does (or is doing) to your anatomy. It could make no > difference or it could be harmful in the long run. After all, even Grant > has said that certain bikes aren't intended to be use in club rides. And > you can, if you wish, employ Grant's "maybe so, maybe not" rhetoric about > one versus the other, but it makes one wonder why he bothered to include > that "Raise Dat Stem" (which was aimed at both people who ride at too high > a position and what it does to various leg muscles versus those who ride at > way too low a position (think excessively low drop bars)) in one of his > Readers. Have you read it?? And to Joe's late arriving comment, yeah you > have proved you can do it, but once again, what's the point? I can see > that I'm creeping closer to the crotchety Steve Placinar commentary level > so I'll cease and desist. Meanwhile, ya'll have a great time on your rides > and enjoy the company of those who differ a bit. > > > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 5:27:58 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! > wrote: > >> George, >> Wait, is this Annie Oakley stuff directed at me? If so, I find your >> comments bordering on mean, but I’ll try to remain objective here. The >> point of my club ride posts is meant to be that one does not have to >> conform to the preconceived notions embraced in bike clubs everywhere: that >> if you don’t look the part and ride a certain bike, you can’t keep pace. >> >> For a rider like me, joining a club ride can be uphill battle, right from >> the time you roll into the parking lot. Despite the “experts” saying you >> can’t hang with a group and ride a heavy bike, a bike with swept back bars, >> flat pedals, blah blah blah, I’m doing it and I’m not slowing us down. I’m >> not saying drop bars are bad and should be tossed out. I AM saying you can >> ride Billie Bars and still be fast. The point is not to negate drop bars >> and carbon bikes; the point is to show that there is room for variety in >> club rides. It might even be healthy. The club riding crowd can be awfully >> dogmatic, and even condescending (though most of my fellow riders are kind >> souls). I would hope my exploits might be a bit refreshing. >> >> But to your point, who here has ridden both types of bikes and can >> honestly say which is faster? Maybe it *is* the drop-bar, short wheelbased >> bike, but I’ve never ridden one, so I can’t say. >> >> On Jul 28, 2022, at 6:06 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Maybe I was too unclear in my previous post because it was getting too >> lengthy, but what I was trying to underscore is that one cannot simply >> elevate a rider with upright bars to the same level as one riding with road >> bike drop bars without taking into consideration the level at which the >> road bike bars are set, the stem length, etc. I'll wager good money (not >> that any money is worth much these days) that a well positioned rider with >> drop bars would blow the socks off any rider on a long wheel-based bike >> with upright bars in an out and out competition. What I seem to see in the >> club ride scenarios posted here lately is a kind of Annie Oakley "Anything >> You Can Do (I Can Do Better)" with upright bars and that's just a one-off >> comparison. Did you read orthopedic physical therapist and exercise >> physiologist Bob Gordon's article? What's the point of all this, anyway? >> >> >> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 4:21:11 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >> >>> I agree that position on the bike matters, but I don't understand how >>> the young lady relates to the rest of your post. We're talking about bar >>> height and you mentioned her saddle was too low and she seemed nervous >>> (which she explained) and shifted a lot. >>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 1:51:54 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >>> >>>> I clearly recall riding in an organized 100K group ride that took place >>>> in Central Indiana in 1994 where a young lady and I had somewhat separated >>>> from some of the other clusters of bikes and she asked if I wanted to join >>>> her the rest of the way. She said she was a triathlete. I agreed and rode >>>> along side for while on my "ancient" '73 Fuji 5-speed while observing her >>>> riding style. Although obviously a very strong rider on a very up-to-date >>>> bike, she seemed very nervous and kind of jittery on her bike and, by >>>> virtue of the all too accessible brifters, was constantly jumping from one >>>> gear to another on even the mildest elevations. She said that she had >>>> crashed on a few occasions, which made her somewhat apprehensive. She >>>> couldn't even remove one hand from the bars to drink from a water bottle >>>> and, though she had flexible tube running from a very tiny bladder-like >>>> water vessel mounted at the rear of her bike, I never saw her take one >>>> sip. She announced that she had become dehydrated during one triathlon >>>> and >>>> I could easily see why. >>>> >>>> Although I never said anything, I also noticed that, given her long >>>> legs, she rode with the saddle in way too low a position. So, at one >>>> point >>>> I asked her if she had ever drafted behind another cyclist and she said >>>> no, >>>> so I offered to take the lead and instructed her about where to place her >>>> bike behind mine in order to get the best wind break. After a while she >>>> remarked, "Your peddling is SO smooth." A little while later she asked, >>>> "Do you ride rollers? You ride perfectly straight!" Well, I did ride >>>> rollers during the off season back then and my pedaling had developed into >>>> that "ankle drop" at the bottom of the down stroke, something (and I'm >>>> sorry about this for you platform pedaling folks) can really only be >>>> perfected with some type of pedal retention. So, on we rode to the end of >>>> the route, never giving her any advice one way or another about riding >>>> position, constant shifting, or pedal retention (I learned the hard way >>>> not >>>> to do that with anyone). As strong a rider as she was, I always hoped >>>> that >>>> she developed a better riding style as time went along. >>>> >>>> The whole point of mentioning this is to underscore that position, >>>> position, position is of ultimate importance. But not the position you >>>> have to buy into at a shop with a Fit-Kit. Having encountered Grant and >>>> his Readers in the mid-90's I soon began to understand that in a different >>>> way that I had previously and, though I still used road drop bars, I >>>> adopted a much higher bar height as a result. After all, I was aging and >>>> was becoming much less flexible that I used to be. If you want ride >>>> higher >>>> bars in a more upright position, good for you. But don't automatically >>>> discount those who use road bars positioned in a way that supports their >>>> riding style; consider instead this article from Page 28 of an old reader >>>> http://notfine.com/rivreader/RR04.pdf and at least give it the benefit >>>> of the doubt. The author is, after all a physical therapist and does have >>>> some worthy credentials. Consider instead what Nick Payne so clearly >>>> underscores in his very accurate post above about the multi-position >>>> availability that the road bars offer a cyclist that upright or flat bars >>>> simply cannot. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:58:04 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’ve got Boscos, Toscos, Rene Herse Maes os, and Some HWY onecos. I’ve >>>>> ridden albatross, bull horns, fun3s, high risers, etc. >>>>> >>>>> They’re great. Having strong feelings about a handlebar seems strange >>>>> to me. I like the multiple positions on a drop bar as much as I like the >>>>> upright position on albatross’. >>>>> >>>>> Just like cruising can be as much or less fun as a group ride. >>>>> >>>>> I admire Leah for not letting preconceived notions prevent her from >>>>> trying new things. I’ve been shunned by roadies at group rides and >>>>> hipsters >>>>> at critical mass. Laugh it off and eat some tacos. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Aaron in El Paso >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 27, 2022, at 08:13, Tom Wyland <tomw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> OK, I used to be all against the idea of riding in circles for >>>>> sport. I'm all about riding to get somewhere or do something, not just >>>>> riding loops. Then Covid lockdown hit and I didn't bike to work, there >>>>> was nothing open, and I didn't want to be exercising my lungs in the >>>>> grocery store after riding there. So I found myself riding in circles. >>>>> So >>>>> I guess it's not that dumb after all. I just wish people would take a >>>>> relaxing ride once and a while instead of sprinting everywhere. >>>>> >>>>> I'm 100% with the comment from Max S on Chilling/Cruising/Jamming >>>>> positions. All bars should have them. >>>>> >>>>> Tom, who recently switched to Bosco Bars >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/811650dd-5b30-4a28-adb3-46e396c83af0n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/811650dd-5b30-4a28-adb3-46e396c83af0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bycr4qzomKk/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7c22387e-c3db-4498-b1e1-a97fb25bb92dn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7c22387e-c3db-4498-b1e1-a97fb25bb92dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bycr4qzomKk/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f2ef591-a3a7-4846-9f5c-f71675162126n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f2ef591-a3a7-4846-9f5c-f71675162126n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/DF016518-11F8-47D6-BED2-71280C6EAFA6%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/DF016518-11F8-47D6-BED2-71280C6EAFA6%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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