Oh, George, I hope your question to me was sincere and not “crotchety” because I would love to answer you.
“What’s the point?” Inclusion. Encouragement: If I can do it, you can too. I cannot be the only one who rides a Rivendell and wants to be part of a local bike community but feels unwelcome. I hope someone on this list decides to try out their local club after reading about the Racing Platypus. That is the whole point of my club ride thread. Sprinkled with some amusement. And, I think it’s healthy for the local club to have a Rivendell in it. I’m happy to spread Grant’s influence; it’s a healthy way to ride a bike. I moved across the country and I wanted bike friends. I didn’t know how I would be received at a club ride, was uncertain I could succeed in one. What if I was unskilled? Too slow? Not accepted? My Platypus is supremely comfortable, gorgeous, and just right for me. If I can’t ride my Platypus in a club ride, I don’t want to be in the club. As it turns out, you *can* ride your Rivendell in a club (Marc has done it for years) and you are not automatically slow and unwelcome just because you do. All but the fastest riders are good to me (the 18+ mph guys ignore me). I ride with nice people on carbon bikes and we really enjoy each other. And now several of them have expressed interest in getting their own Rivendells. “But does that make your upright bars and long wheelbase superior to theirs?” Maybe. Depends on what you value. If I can do the same job on a bike that allows me to wear whatever clothes I want, look at the scenery and keep pace with the rest, that’s superior by my definition, and that’s why I’m riding a Platypus and not a Trek. I’m sure the roadie would think their bike superior to mine. That’s ok with me. And tomorrow I’ll be riding with them and we’ll have a great time. But I’ll be more comfortable and riding a prettier bike. Leah > On Jul 28, 2022, at 7:08 PM, George Schick <bhim...@gmail.com> wrote: > "....But to your point, who here has ridden both types of bikes and can > honestly say which is faster? Maybe it *is* the drop-bar, short wheel based > bike, but I’ve never ridden one, so I can’t say..." Well I, for one, have > and continue to ride both types of bikes and have no reason to negative > either one; they both have their legitimate purposes. But if you want to say > that one is either just as good or superior to the other then I have to stop > and shake my head a bit. Again, as I replied to Bernard, what's the point? > If you can ride with the "roadies" as you call them and keep up with them, > fine. But does that make your upright bars and long wheelbase superior to > theirs? I hardly think so - it's all a matter or riding position and what it > does (or is doing) to your anatomy. It could make no difference or it could > be harmful in the long run. After all, even Grant has said that certain > bikes aren't intended to be use in club rides. And you can, if you wish, > employ Grant's "maybe so, maybe not" rhetoric about one versus the other, but > it makes one wonder why he bothered to include that "Raise Dat Stem" (which > was aimed at both people who ride at too high a position and what it does to > various leg muscles versus those who ride at way too low a position (think > excessively low drop bars)) in one of his Readers. Have you read it?? And > to Joe's late arriving comment, yeah you have proved you can do it, but once > again, what's the point? I can see that I'm creeping closer to the crotchety > Steve Placinar commentary level so I'll cease and desist. Meanwhile, ya'll > have a great time on your rides and enjoy the company of those who differ a > bit. > > > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 5:27:58 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote: >> George, >> Wait, is this Annie Oakley stuff directed at me? If so, I find your comments >> bordering on mean, but I’ll try to remain objective here. The point of my >> club ride posts is meant to be that one does not have to conform to the >> preconceived notions embraced in bike clubs everywhere: that if you don’t >> look the part and ride a certain bike, you can’t keep pace. >> >> For a rider like me, joining a club ride can be uphill battle, right from >> the time you roll into the parking lot. Despite the “experts” saying you >> can’t hang with a group and ride a heavy bike, a bike with swept back bars, >> flat pedals, blah blah blah, I’m doing it and I’m not slowing us down. I’m >> not saying drop bars are bad and should be tossed out. I AM saying you can >> ride Billie Bars and still be fast. The point is not to negate drop bars and >> carbon bikes; the point is to show that there is room for variety in club >> rides. It might even be healthy. The club riding crowd can be awfully >> dogmatic, and even condescending (though most of my fellow riders are kind >> souls). I would hope my exploits might be a bit refreshing. >> >> But to your point, who here has ridden both types of bikes and can honestly >> say which is faster? Maybe it *is* the drop-bar, short wheelbased bike, but >> I’ve never ridden one, so I can’t say. >> >>> On Jul 28, 2022, at 6:06 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Maybe I was too unclear in my previous post because it was getting too >>> lengthy, but what I was trying to underscore is that one cannot simply >>> elevate a rider with upright bars to the same level as one riding with road >>> bike drop bars without taking into consideration the level at which the >>> road bike bars are set, the stem length, etc. I'll wager good money (not >>> that any money is worth much these days) that a well positioned rider with >>> drop bars would blow the socks off any rider on a long wheel-based bike >>> with upright bars in an out and out competition. What I seem to see in the >>> club ride scenarios posted here lately is a kind of Annie Oakley "Anything >>> You Can Do (I Can Do Better)" with upright bars and that's just a one-off >>> comparison. Did you read orthopedic physical therapist and exercise >>> physiologist Bob Gordon's article? What's the point of all this, anyway? >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 4:21:11 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>> I agree that position on the bike matters, but I don't understand how the >>>> young lady relates to the rest of your post. We're talking about bar >>>> height and you mentioned her saddle was too low and she seemed nervous >>>> (which she explained) and shifted a lot. >>>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 1:51:54 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >>>>> I clearly recall riding in an organized 100K group ride that took place >>>>> in Central Indiana in 1994 where a young lady and I had somewhat >>>>> separated from some of the other clusters of bikes and she asked if I >>>>> wanted to join her the rest of the way. She said she was a triathlete. I >>>>> agreed and rode along side for while on my "ancient" '73 Fuji 5-speed >>>>> while observing her riding style. Although obviously a very strong rider >>>>> on a very up-to-date bike, she seemed very nervous and kind of jittery on >>>>> her bike and, by virtue of the all too accessible brifters, was >>>>> constantly jumping from one gear to another on even the mildest >>>>> elevations. She said that she had crashed on a few occasions, which made >>>>> her somewhat apprehensive. She couldn't even remove one hand from the >>>>> bars to drink from a water bottle and, though she had flexible tube >>>>> running from a very tiny bladder-like water vessel mounted at the rear of >>>>> her bike, I never saw her take one sip. She announced that she had >>>>> become dehydrated during one triathlon and I could easily see why. >>>>> >>>>> Although I never said anything, I also noticed that, given her long legs, >>>>> she rode with the saddle in way too low a position. So, at one point I >>>>> asked her if she had ever drafted behind another cyclist and she said no, >>>>> so I offered to take the lead and instructed her about where to place her >>>>> bike behind mine in order to get the best wind break. After a while she >>>>> remarked, "Your peddling is SO smooth." A little while later she asked, >>>>> "Do you ride rollers? You ride perfectly straight!" Well, I did ride >>>>> rollers during the off season back then and my pedaling had developed >>>>> into that "ankle drop" at the bottom of the down stroke, something (and >>>>> I'm sorry about this for you platform pedaling folks) can really only be >>>>> perfected with some type of pedal retention. So, on we rode to the end >>>>> of the route, never giving her any advice one way or another about riding >>>>> position, constant shifting, or pedal retention (I learned the hard way >>>>> not to do that with anyone). As strong a rider as she was, I always >>>>> hoped that she developed a better riding style as time went along. >>>>> >>>>> The whole point of mentioning this is to underscore that position, >>>>> position, position is of ultimate importance. But not the position you >>>>> have to buy into at a shop with a Fit-Kit. Having encountered Grant and >>>>> his Readers in the mid-90's I soon began to understand that in a >>>>> different way that I had previously and, though I still used road drop >>>>> bars, I adopted a much higher bar height as a result. After all, I was >>>>> aging and was becoming much less flexible that I used to be. If you want >>>>> ride higher bars in a more upright position, good for you. But don't >>>>> automatically discount those who use road bars positioned in a way that >>>>> supports their riding style; consider instead this article from Page 28 >>>>> of an old reader http://notfine.com/rivreader/RR04.pdf and at least give >>>>> it the benefit of the doubt. The author is, after all a physical >>>>> therapist and does have some worthy credentials. Consider instead what >>>>> Nick Payne so clearly underscores in his very accurate post above about >>>>> the multi-position availability that the road bars offer a cyclist that >>>>> upright or flat bars simply cannot. >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 10:58:04 AM UTC-5 amill...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> I’ve got Boscos, Toscos, Rene Herse Maes os, and Some HWY onecos. I’ve >>>>>> ridden albatross, bull horns, fun3s, high risers, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> They’re great. Having strong feelings about a handlebar seems strange to >>>>>> me. I like the multiple positions on a drop bar as much as I like the >>>>>> upright position on albatross’. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just like cruising can be as much or less fun as a group ride. >>>>>> >>>>>> I admire Leah for not letting preconceived notions prevent her from >>>>>> trying new things. I’ve been shunned by roadies at group rides and >>>>>> hipsters at critical mass. Laugh it off and eat some tacos. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Aaron in El Paso >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 27, 2022, at 08:13, Tom Wyland <tomw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, I used to be all against the idea of riding in circles for sport. >>>>>> I'm all about riding to get somewhere or do something, not just riding >>>>>> loops. Then Covid lockdown hit and I didn't bike to work, there was >>>>>> nothing open, and I didn't want to be exercising my lungs in the grocery >>>>>> store after riding there. So I found myself riding in circles. So I >>>>>> guess it's not that dumb after all. I just wish people would take a >>>>>> relaxing ride once and a while instead of sprinting everywhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm 100% with the comment from Max S on Chilling/Cruising/Jamming >>>>>> positions. All bars should have them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom, who recently switched to Bosco Bars >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/811650dd-5b30-4a28-adb3-46e396c83af0n%40googlegroups.com. >>> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bycr4qzomKk/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7c22387e-c3db-4498-b1e1-a97fb25bb92dn%40googlegroups.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bycr4qzomKk/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f2ef591-a3a7-4846-9f5c-f71675162126n%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/DF016518-11F8-47D6-BED2-71280C6EAFA6%40gmail.com.
