In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm chainstays... which is pretty close to the 61.5 Homer (49cm). Tubing, tire clearance and brake type seem to be what sets them apart.
Bones On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 6:16:04 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote: > "Sam shorter than Homer" > > My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for buyers > wary of the super-long stays of the newer models. > > On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote: > >> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the >> AHH? With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be >> opposite. >> >> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of >>> frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little >>> nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences >>> in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over >>> 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough >>> because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have >>> enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that >>> would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the >>> Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged >>> that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes. >>> >>> I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes >>> sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it >>> makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes. >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote: >>> >>>> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is >>>> now MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, >>>> etc. May as well make the brakes different. >>>> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style >>>> preference would make a lot of sense. >>>> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge, >>>> or name would make a lot of sense too. >>>> >>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on >>>>> my part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit >>>>> to >>>>> harboring: >>>>> >>>>> Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the >>>>> Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was >>>>> still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road >>>>> bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so >>>>> Sam >>>>> morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are >>>>> all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've >>>>> been >>>>> arcane enough! >>>>> >>>>> Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull >>>>>> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake >>>>>> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a >>>>>> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the >>>>>> fork >>>>>> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. >>>>>> That >>>>>> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything >>>>>> bigger than a 42c. >>>>>> >>>>>> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is >>>>>> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> New newer newest ... >>>>>>> Standard oversised ... >>>>>>> normal short long ... >>>>>>> Traditional ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of >>>>>>> which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> paying attention. >>>>>>> From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of the >>>>>>> more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> limited sizing. >>>>>>> With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from >>>>>>> "traditional". >>>>>>> Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye >>>>>>> side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to >>>>>>> mention V >>>>>>> brakes) are new fangled. Discs new fangleder yet. >>>>>>> But I think RBW would say they aren't about tradition but about >>>>>>> practical bikes and what works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There were side pull Roms and canti-Roms, there were side pull >>>>>>> Salukis and canti Salukis, there've been canti Sams and side pull Sams, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> SOs were going to be side pull but the builder used the wrong rear >>>>>>> brake >>>>>>> bridge so they ended up canti. Prior to their recent embrace of V >>>>>>> brakes >>>>>>> (and the slow march towards ever bigger and bigger tires) RBW seemed >>>>>>> quite >>>>>>> agnostic wrt the whole canti vs side/center pull thing, and they went >>>>>>> back >>>>>>> and forth quite a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm continually amazed at how strongly many folks feel about various >>>>>>> types of brakes. In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience they >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> can work fine. That said, I find side/center pull calipers the easiest >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> least fidly to set up. If they (side/center pull) yield sufficient >>>>>>> clearance I don't see a strong argument against them. >>>>>>> I'm glad you got the bike you want, I'm also glad my wife's Sam has >>>>>>> dual pivot brakes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 5:20:59 PM UTC-7, Nathan F wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This change baffled me too, when I was buying my 2018 (in 2019, the >>>>>>>> last one Rivelo had) it was a huge deal for me. Glad to see another >>>>>>>> run of >>>>>>>> them, in my eyes the Hillborne is the last holdout of the more >>>>>>>> "traditional" Riv designs that ended a few years ago. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, 5 September 2020 16:12:03 UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The original Sams had cantilever brakes; why did Rivendell switch >>>>>>>>> to calipers? It seems to me that the Sam is the sort of bike -- >>>>>>>>> allroad or >>>>>>>>> country bike -- that obviously needs cantilevers (or V brakes; heck, >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> that matter discs, if Rivendell used discs; just not calipers) for >>>>>>>>> tire and >>>>>>>>> fender clearance. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 3:37 PM Joel <jrst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The new ones are canti’s I think? Did Riv make other changes? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Patrick Moore >>>>>>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/B3T9V-c81is/unsubscribe >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d8dd48e-e091-4366-a509-8a3c7cf68cc4o%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d8dd48e-e091-4366-a509-8a3c7cf68cc4o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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