I was talking about the stays. The L bracket attaches to the fender with the thick hardware facing out, thin button head or rivet head inside the fender. The daruma is rotated 90 degrees on the stay and goes through the L bracket instead of the fender – the daruma never touches the fender. The daruma is parallel to the fender, not perpendicular.
Laing From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Bill Lindsay Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 10:12 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> Subject: [RBW] Re: Roadini fendering at 32mm? Laing described ways to avoid having bulky hardware inside the fender at the places the fender attaches to the rear brake bridge and fork crown. In that description, he repeatedly used the word "stays". I think we're misunderstanding each other. I wasn't talking about clearance at bridges. I was talking about fender stay hardware. I think 'fender stays' are an actual thing. These are fender stays: [Image result for honjo fender stays] Fender stays attach to the fender at one end and near the rear drop out or fork tip on the other end. The typical hardware that is used to attach fender stays to the metal fender is one or two daruma bolts. The daruma bolts that come with Honjo, Velo Orange, and Berthoud metal fenders have a fairly tall height inside the fender. Depending on the vendor and the setup the internal daruma hardware will be 4mm to 8mm tall, inside the fender. Often, when I correctly install metal fenders with correct equal spacing to the tire all around, the place most likely to rub the tire will be the fender stay hardware touching the tire in this area. One could re-shape the fender to not have proper clearance at the fender stays, but that can cause other problems: it looks bad, you have more front TCO, and you increase the risk of sucking a stick into a big gap that decreases as the wheel rolls. The "falsehood" I was spreading was just a statement of fact: most metal fenders come with round fender stays. Most metal fenders come with daruma bolts to attach the stays to the fender. Unmodified daruma bolts intrude on the interior space of the fender at the fender stays. Plastic fenders have a flat piece of metal pop-riveted to the fender, protruding only 1mm or 2mm into the interior of the fender. This area is where I think plastic fenders always have more clearance. If there is a good solution for attaching fender stays to metal fenders with no interior hardware I would be interested to learn about that hardware. I imagine I could design and fashion a fender stay mounting object that replaces darumas that has this feature, but if there is already a part or an established method to solve this area, I'd be happy to learn about it. Possibly the easiest method would be to run Berthoud brand fender stays. Those are typically squished flat at the point that they attach to the metal fender and drilled for bolts. Run a pan head inside the fender and a nut outside. That solves the interior hardware problem, you just have to buy extra stays (or always buy Berthoud fenders). It's only money. Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 11:58:53 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote: Exactly. Put the panhead bolt head or hex button head inside the fender and the nut on the outside. If you have daruma style stays, buy a $5 L-bracket from VO (or the sliding crimp fitting that comes standard with most metal fenders and some plastic fenders, crimp it to the fender or cut it up to make your own L-bracket) - mount one side to the fender and the other to the daruma bolt (play with the orientation for best appearance. Can also use pop rivets ($4 with coupon for rivet gun, $4.80 for 500 rivets with coupon at Harbor Freight) to attach to fender for maximum clearance (use the aluminum rivets and pound or press them flat). You can also get aluminum angle at Lowes or Home Depot and make really nice aluminum L-brackets with a hacksaw, file and drill. If you have a bench grinder, it goes quicker. With a rat tail file, you can make a squiggly point an the bracket to match your lugs. Boulder Bike used to sell nice L-brackets (may have been Berthouds) , they still have some beautiful diamond shaped fender reinforcements. The most difficult thing that I am putting fenders on is a Hubbuhubbuh with 2.3 tires and linear brakes. The center stays at the rear have very little side clearance and the linear brake cables are just above the tires. The fenders will need to be cut or narrowed at the center stays and probably cut (or possibly slotted) at the brake cables. Honjo H95s (I believe the SimWorks are the same) are plenty wide enough. They are wide and use two darumas - you just put the darumas to the outside of each side of the fender to avoid the center of the tire, or I could use two L-brackets. I am also putting H95s on my Bombadil - it has so much clearance to the 57 mm G-Ones that nothing special needs to be done. Laing Cocoa, FL On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 1:21:03 PM UTC-4, ted wrote: The berthoud fender stays are very nice. They bolt directly to the fender and you can put the small button head end on the inside. I’ve replaced the stock stays on longboards with berthoud ones and I think it gives a stiffer result as well as eliminating the internal hardware that some folks claim sends water from inside the fender onto your feet. If I ever try metal fenders I’ll probably want to use berthoud stays regardless of who makes the fenders. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com<mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com>. 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