In my experience, riding with a saddle lower than "the optimal" is has led to significant knee pain while pedaling. I have plenty of experience doing so, as guy with long legs who has worked as a mechanic, and thus spent a fair bit of time test riding bikes with saddles lower than mine. I don't see it as a racer thing, but rather a element of a high quality cycling experience whether you're"just riding," riding to the store, or out for a century.
What's optimal? I used to tell people that they're shooting for about 80% leg extension at the bottom of the stroke, but that was just to give them a starting place. My real rule of thumb is this: if the front of your knee (i.e. under the kneecap) is hurting while you ride, your saddle is probably too low. If the back of your knee (i.e. your hamstrings) is hurting while you ride, your saddle is probably too high. No pain around the knees? You're probably in good shape. All that being said, I've come to discover that "the optimal" seat height for me is significantly lower than most systems based on measuring inseam or PBH would recommend for me. My current saddle height, which has worked well for at least the last 5 years and plenty of long rides, is 5-6 cm shorter than my Rivendell-recommended seat height. I have a few theories as to why. The first is that I have very tight hamstrings, as I am reminded at every single yoga class I attend. The other is that I've gone completely over to riding flat pedals, and riding with my foot farther forward on the pedal than I did when I was using retention systems (I've used clips and straps, power grips, and clipless pedals). Doing so effectively shortens my leg, requiring a lower saddle height. To the OP, I would say that I think that riding with your seat "too low" for any kind of significant distance is probably a recipe for pain and injury. However: 1. You might be able to get by with a lower saddle than you think, or is recommended for you. Some experimentation based on the front/back of knee rule of thumb might help here. 2. There are ways to setup your bike to achieve both a lower overall saddle height while maintaining good leg extension: flat pedals with a midfoot positioning, sliding your saddle farther back on the rails, thinner pedals, thinner shoes, etc. If your braking system and frame allows it, fitting smaller wheels than those for which your bike is designed will lower you down, but potentially at the risk of increased pedal strikes. If you look at the bikes ridden around European cities, you'll see that they incorporate many of these design features: flat pedals, very slack seat tube angles, and low bottom bracket heights, so a bike like that also makes it easier to put a foot down while riding with a good leg extension. There have been some bikes marketed here in the U.S. for the same purpose: the RANS referenced above, Electras, Day 6 bikes, etc. Although since we're on the RBW forum I'm guessing your talking about it in the context of riding a Rivendell bike. They tend to have low BB's and slacker seat tube angles (but maybe not Dutch-bike-slack), so they are definitely easier than some other bikes in this context. Finally, and depending on what bike you're riding with what kind of seatpost extension, there's always the high tech solution: a dropper post. There are a few 27.2mm dropper posts out there and I've seen a picture of at least one Clem (set up for mountain biking) with one. Roll up to the beer stop, hit the lever on your handlebars, and the ground is instantly 80-175mm closer, depending on the model of dropper post. On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:27:14 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote: > > > Lower your saddle and/or take no thought about it. Take a look at your > "average" European cyclist you see in the streets... the people for whom > cycling is simple a part of everyday living. The men and women who ride in > everything business suits and loafers to full dresses and high heels. What > I see is no one adhering to any such subjective "rule" about saddle height > and leg bend angle and all the techno mumbo jumbo that really has no basis > in truth because if it did, everyone who didn't adhere to it would "suffer > the dire consequences" that "saddle position theories" claims will happen > if you don't worship it. Tell that to grandma in Amsterdam who's been > riding here whole life her saddle is too low, that she can ride > better/faster/stronger ... that what she's doing is "wrong" and can be > "improved", and see how that goes ! > > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 4:21:53 PM UTC-5, Marty Gierke, > Stewartstown PA wrote: >> >> Literally. I want to be able to put my foot down from my "in the saddle" >> position and not have to lean over at all, or maybe just a little, and not >> have to do a full ballerina pointe. Like many of you I'm guessing, I have >> an ancient echo in my head that tells my how my leg should be only slightly >> bent while in the saddle, or that if I pedal backwards with the ball of my >> foot on the pedal my hips should not rock. I've taken for granted that when >> I set the saddle height to accomplish both of those, it comes at the >> expense of putting my foot down (quickly and easily) at a stop sign or >> unexpected roadside beer tent. I presume the echo is residue from some >> racer-oriented mag I once read. It's high time I release the un-racer in me >> and embrace the low-down. >> >> So how do you do it? How bent is your knee at 6 o'clock? Can you put your >> foot down? >> >> Marty >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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