Thanks for this perspective. It seems that one great disadvantage of CF is that it suffers easily from wear, or at least from scratches; overcoming this and building for long term durability for everyday use and inexpert maintenance by the ill trained masses, I wonder how much of a weight advantage would be left. Of course, you may be able to tune the ride better than you can with steel --? I don't know.
Perhaps Wayne is right and CF is best left for special use high maintenance short life sorts of applications? CF Pros for mass market bicycle use: Weight and Strength? Weight but not strength/strength but not weight? Ride tuneability Shape tuneability Steel ditto: Lasts years Easily adaptable for size and ride qualities Easy to maintain Inexpensive (relatively) Easy to repair and modify I hope others will add to these lists -- after thinking about their entries! On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 11:32 PM, Wayne Naha <[email protected]> wrote: > I used to work for a well known helicopter manufacturer. I worked as a > mechanic, building helicopters. I can tell you, those helicopters use a > lot of carbon fiber composite. They wouldn't fly without it. And being > that it has to fly, they are pretty weight weenie about parts, spare no > expense, really. $50.00 titanium screws and what not. But the main thing > the manufacturer can't do is kill people, though. The equivalent of one > steerer tube failure would put an end to that. The FAA is not the most > proactive agency, but one thing they do not like is headlines about > aircraft falling out of the sky. That's bad for business. So design tends > to be conservative. This is what amazes me about the current state of > carbon fiber bicycle frame manufacturing. The disregard for customer > safety and the complacency with respect to safety. Carbon fiber works in > aviation because the design emphasis is on safety and reliability, then > weight. Qualified technicians inspect the aircraft before every flight and > at regular specified intervals, and damage tolerance is very low. Good ol' > Bubba doesn't decide if a nick or scratch requires a repair, the structural > repair manual does. Also, carbon fiber is not used exclusively. If wear > and abrasion is expected, as in the leading edge of a main rotor blade, > then metal, usually very thin titanium or stainless steel is bonded on top > of the carbon fiber. So I would say that carbon fiber is an excellent > material if designed intelligently and used intelligently, but it is not as > forgiving as steel. Steel tolerates damage that carbon fiber doesn't. > People are used to steel, but don't understand that carbon fiber requires > more from them. Is that stone chip a problem? With steel it's not, but > with carbon fiber it's different. It's an easy answer in aviation. Look > it up in the structural repair manual. There you will read: does the > damage exceed such a depth, such a width, such a length, is it located in a > critical area, and so forth. Then you will know, yes its safe or no it > needs a repair. Do carbon fiber bikes come with structural repair > manuals? They should. In my mind, carbon fiber is best reserved for > professional rides for whom weight is critical AND who have qualified > mechanics inspecting the bikes every time they are ridden. I really doubt > that individual users understand the maintenance requirements of carbon > fiber, or are capable of and willing to meet them. Carbon fiber requires > maintenance, and that is expensive and inconvenient. Even aluminum is a > lot more rugged. > > On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 3:01:03 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten ************************************************************************** ************** *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the world revolves.) *Carthusian motto *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
