I apologize Neil.  I got this backasswards.  I have the smaller of the two 
which is the Packer ... not the Packer Plus.

On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 9:31:59 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> Neil,
>
> When most people think of Ortleib panniers they picture those big glossy 
> plastic looking things people use on round-the-world tours.  You may be, as 
> I was, more interested in Ortleib's Sport Packer and/or Sport Packer Plus 
> lineup.  I went with the a pair of the Sport Packer Plus's.  The outer 
> surface has a cloth-like feel and appearance.  I particularly like the 
> brown but other colors are available. The basic difference between the 
> Sport Packer and the Packer Plus is that the Plus is smaller and intended 
> to be used as front panniers.  I do not yet have a front rack so I've only 
> used them as rear panniers for commuting purposes and I've only ever needed 
> one.  But it is very rare that I ever leave home without it.  The Ortleib 
> mounting system and shoulder strap can't be beat in my opinion.  I paid 
> $145 for the set at REI on sale.
>
> Here's a review that gives more information than you will probably ever 
> need:
>
>
> http://bicycletouringpro.com/blog/review-ortlieb-bike-packer-sport-packer-plus-bicycle-touring-panniers/
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Matt
>
> On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 12:36:50 PM UTC-7, Neil wrote:
>
> Interesting that the Ortlieb's work. I consider Ortlieb's overbuilt for my 
>> purpose, but it may be worth another look.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 4:31:35 PM UTC-7, DS wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone use the HAR with other front panniers, or specifically the mini 
>>> short stacks from swift? Do they fit or did you need to do anything 
>>> creative to make them work? 
>>>
>>

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