And that would make a fixed gear the best of all! —Eric N [email protected] www.campyonly.com www.wheelsnorth.org Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com Twitter: @campyonlyguy
> On Jan 12, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bill Lindsay <[email protected]> wrote: > > How about with a single speed? All shifts feel the same and the chain > tension is constant. :-P > > On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 1:50:25 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote: > With a three-speed hub, all the shifts feel the same, and the chain always > has constant tension. > > --Eric N > www.CampyOnly.com <http://www.campyonly.com/> > CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com <http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com/> > Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy > > On Jan 12, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@ <>gmail.com > <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: > >> Perhaps. In his Vol 2 No 2 BQ article, Jan hinted at the benefits of the >> Nivex derailer system. He said that the benefit was that every shift felt >> exaclty the same at the shiftlever, and he tried to attribute that to the >> chain tension being constant. The implication then would be that on my >> "normal" bike I shift even easier when chain tension is looser, but I work >> harder when chain tension is tighter, but more importantly, I never shift >> precisely because every shift is different? >> >> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 1:20:55 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote: >> Jan mentioned chain slap in the small/small combos (when chain tension would >> be lowest) as a major problem solved by constant tension. That suggests that >> normal “low” tension is “too low,” so perhaps somewhere between that and >> normal “high” tension? >> >> —Eric N >> [email protected] <> >> www.campyonly.com <http://www.campyonly.com/> >> www.wheelsnorth.org <http://www.wheelsnorth.org/> >> Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com <http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com/> >> Twitter: @campyonlyguy >> >>> On Jan 12, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Bill Lindsay <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm not doing anything in this project to attempt to achieve constant chain >>> tension. Jan has mentioned multiple times that constant chain tension is >>> much better, but he has left out a LOT of details to that theory, I think. >>> Constant tension is better, but what value of tension? What procedure did >>> he go through to optimize his chain tension? A "normal" derailer >>> presumably has looser tension when you are in small-small and higher >>> tension when you are in large-large. What tension range does a normal >>> derailer have? Is it always too tight? Always too loose? Does it >>> transition from too loose to too tight? What gear has the optimum tension. >>> When it is too-loose, what performance are you losing? When chain tension >>> is too tight, what performance are you losing? He hasn't developed that >>> theory in any cohesive way, yet, that I've seen. >>> >>> Positron did not have dual cables. Positron had a monowire cable that >>> would PULL and PUSH. There were special housing clips at either end and >>> continuous housing all the way from the shifter to the derailer. You would >>> pull the shifter to pull that wire, moving the derailer to a bigger >>> sprocket. Then you'd push the derailer to push that same wire, which would >>> push the derailer to a smaller sprocket. Shimano learned a TON about SIS >>> housing from Postitron cable housing. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 12:03:33 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote: >>> Jan Heine talks about making a similar custom derailleur for his Rene Herse >>> in the latest issue of Bicycle Quarterly. He says that having a constant >>> tension on the chain provides huge benefits in shifting and overall >>> performance. >>> >>> —Eric N >>> campyo...@ <>me.com <http://me.com/> >>> www.campyonly.com <http://www.campyonly.com/> >>> www.wheelsnorth.org <http://www.wheelsnorth.org/> >>> Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com <http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com/> >>> Twitter: @campyonlyguy >>> >>>> On Jan 12, 2015, at 12:01 PM, Anton Tutter <atu...@ <>gmail.com >>>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Fair enough. And you KNOW I would never ask about #5, as I embrace DIY and >>>> a hack culture in general. >>>> >>>> I was just curious why you would do this unless there was something >>>> particularly nagging about your current derailleur setup. To do so out of >>>> historical curiosity alone earns bonus points. >>>> >>>> Carry on. Interested to see the outcome. >>>> >>>> Anton >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 1:10:40 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>> Anton, >>>> >>>> Can you be more specific? Why what? I'll take a guess at five possible >>>> things: >>>> >>>> 1. Why would you want to try using a springless rear derailer? Because >>>> they were popular during a very interesting period of cycling history, and >>>> disappeared basically by historical accident, and are now essentially >>>> forgotten. I'm curious at what was lost. >>>> 2. Why would you bother destroying a perfectly good derailer? Just a >>>> creative outlet. I think about bikes a lot. It's meditative and at the >>>> same time it is mental exercise. >>>> 3. Why don't you just ride instead of over-thinking things that are >>>> perfectly fine as they are? If I had more free time in the daylight I >>>> probably would. If I had less mentally idle time, commuting to and from >>>> work, maybe I'd come up with fewer ideas >>>> 4. Why make a non-linear shifter to complement your non-linear derailer, >>>> making the pair linear? Because in the lower end of my 9 speed cassette, >>>> I find the action on my downtube friction shifters very sensitive. All my >>>> overshifts and ghost shifts happen in cogs 1 and 2. Looking at the math, >>>> I found the geometry of my derailer demanded that sensitivity. I'm >>>> thinking maybe I can smooth that out and get fewer missed shifts and ghost >>>> shifts in the low gears >>>> 5. Why make DIY bike parts? Why don't you just buy what is available? >>>> Partially because I don't always find the industry at large is motivated >>>> by the things that motivate me. Partially because I'm a design guy and I >>>> enjoy putting my own fingerprint on my builds. Partially out of just a >>>> general curiosity and desire to explore ideas. I'm inspired by current >>>> and historical builders. One builder who particularly has inspired me is >>>> Charlie Cunningham. That's a guy who feels absolutely zero obligation to >>>> conform to what anybody else thinks a bike should look like or should be. >>>> 6. Why do you think a springless rear derailer is vastly superior to a >>>> normal derailer with a return spring? I don't, and never said I did. I'm >>>> just curious and like exploring. >>>> 7. How much faster do you expect to ride with this? Zero miles per hour >>>> faster >>>> 8. What are you trying to get out of this project? Grins >>>> >>>> Maybe you meant none of the above. Maybe you asked because you are pretty >>>> sure it's a stupid waste of time, which it might be. Add it to the long >>>> list of ways in which humans have wasted time. Maybe you meant something >>>> much different. >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 8:43:28 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote: >>>> Okay, but why? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@ <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@ <>googlegroups. >>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>com <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch >>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch>. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to <>rbw-owners-bunch+ >>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@ <>googlegroups. >>> <http://googlegroups.com/>com <http://googlegroups.com/>. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch >>> <http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@ <>googlegroups.com <http://googlegroups.com/>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] <>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch >> <http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch > <http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
