The stated purpose of this change was to increase Racket's popularity. Someone asked, if Racket were already more popular, would this proposal be made? The answer was, probably not.
It seems we're jumping over some questions: 1. More popular, among who? [About "research language": Is it primarily popularity in "academia", e.g. see more Racket in classrooms, in papers, and on conference slides. Or in "industry"? Of course both is nice, but if we ever must choose one as a priority, which one?] 2. How popular? Are we aiming for as popular as Clojure? Haskell? Python? Java? JavaScript? 3. What are various possible ways to achieve this popularity, including -- but not limited to -- changing the surface syntax? 4. Which are most likely to succeed? Which are most likely to backfire? [Backfire? See e.g. New Coke. Or Lotus 1-2-3 vs. Excel. Also, I have some experience trying to make software products more popular. Sometimes successfully. Sometimes not. It's difficult. Most things you try, don't help. Some hurt. It is pretty typical for e.g. salespeople to complain, "How can we sell more if we don't add certain exact features the competition has?". This is the way of salespeople. ;) Often the features are added, at great effort, and it turns out not to help at all. Sometimes, it actually alienates existing customers, who chose you for the distinctive feature the salespeople wanted killed. No more customers, just worse word-of-mouth.] 4. Do we have some sense of how to rank them on effort and risk? 5. Given all that, what should we do? I think it would be a mistake to skip this discussion. Of course, if the PLT team wants to discuss and decide, privately, that's their prerogative. In that case I wish they'd share some of the choices considered and rationale. This would help folks understand who Racket is intended for, going forward. ----------------------------------------------------------------- p.s. I am NOT saying the following is what the decision should be. It is only AN example. I don't even know if it would be my first choice -- because having the discussion is the whole point of figuring that out. Having said that: Let's say we wanted to aim (next, for now) for roughly "Clojure" level of popularity. There are multiple companies using it, jobs, etc. It's not nearly as popular as Java or Python, which is both good and bad. Anyway, Clojure is relatively popular, "in spite of" sexprs, at least partly because it runs on the JVM and JavaScript. As the Racket-on-Chez effort concludes, and we wonder, what next, maybe a next step would be to work on other backends, which IIRC was one of the stated benefits of doing R-on-C. Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily my preference or "vote". I'm saying it's an example of a plan that flows from the previous plan. People can understand why, immediately. It builds on top of Racket's existing identity and "fan base", and keeps a distinctive feature. p.p.s. The syntax proposal also seems to muddy the LoP and DSL messsage. Maybe it's not strictly a contradiction. But it's a little confusing: "LoP is great! You can choose the best way to express each part of each program. Now, only some parts of some programs do a lot of math, for which infix is nice. So guess what? We're going to urge everyone to switch the default/public/core language to infix syntax. Just please update documentation and books and tutorials and blog posts and gists and Stack Exchange and...." So if this proposal indeed goes forward, there probably needs to be some explainer or FAQ for this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Racket Users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/875zo1ctmw.fsf%40greghendershott.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.