For my part, I don't mind dissing hygiene; I certainly don't think that the current state of the art in hygenic macro expanders is the best we can do. BUT, I found the small sampling that I read of Let Over Lambda to be fairly ignorant in some ways and quite strange in others (like the paragraph that complained about booleans in Scheme; it didn't make much sense to me).
Anyways, to your actual question: my answer would be that most macros I know are hygenic. Ie, if you have to pick a default for variables introduced by a macro, hygenic is the right one. Robby On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Greg Hendershott <greghendersh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I've only skimmed/sampled some of On Lisp, and even less of Let Over > Lambda. But the main theme of both seemed to be: Macros are an > important higher level of programming, but under-appreciated, > under-utilized, under-understood (stood?), and "under-booked". Hence > these books. > > Anaphoric macros are deliberately unhygienic. But I didn't get the > impression that all or even most of the macro techniques were > unhygienic. Am I wrong and didn't get deep enough into the books? To > put it another way, is the negative reaction here due to him dissing > hygiene, or is it reflective of a deeper and broader disagreement with > the entire approach of putting macros on a pedestal? > > BTW I'm asking this innocently, genuinely not knowing the answer, > curious what more experienced people think. > > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Carl Eastlund <c...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 08:42:57AM -0500, Shriram Krishnamurthi wrote: >>>> I haven't seen this book mentioned here before, so: >>>> >>>> http://letoverlambda.com/ >>>> >>>> It is, well, a very particular perspective on things, but I've heard >>>> people speak well of it. >>> >>> It looks interesting. Very unSchemeish, though. Chapter 6, on >>> anaphoric macros, seems to celebrate unhygienicity. >>> >>> -- hendrik >> >> The following passage is particularly unsettling. >> >> "Even the vast majority of Scheme systems, the platform that has >> experimented the most with hygiene, provide unhygienic defmacro-style >> macros—presumably because not even Scheme implementors take hygiene >> very seriously. Like training wheels on a bicycle, hygiene systems are >> for the most part toys that should be discarded after even a modest >> level of skill has been acquired." >> >> --Carl >> _________________________________________________ >> For list-related administrative tasks: >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/users >> > _________________________________________________ > For list-related administrative tasks: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/users > _________________________________________________ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/users
