Magnus Lycka wrote: > Ed Singleton wrote: > >>How about putting the current tutorial into the wiki and seeing if >>people start updating it? I'm not saying it would work, but it might >>have interesting effects... > > > There are abviously a lot of ideas in the air concerning on-line > editing of the new python web site, support for user comments in > the docs etc. I hope some of these things will be deployed soon. > You and me both!
> Concerning the tutorial, I just felt that the two I mentioned are > the "best of breed", and it might be smarter to give them official > status. I don't see any value in maintaining Guido's tutorial for > all eternity. It's not as if we need backward compatibility in the > tutorial department... I suppose there are some gaps in A Byte Of > Python that needs to be filled. For instance, the discussion on > Unicode seems very thin. I still think it's a better starting point > for the ideal beginners tutorial than the old official tutorial. > As with all such content, the first thing you will need is a band of volunteers dedicated to keeping the content up to date, both proactively and in response to reader comments. This is a far from easy step. > I still feel it's a better beginner's tutorial though. Last time I > suggested the standard Python tutorial to someone, she dropped > Python almost at once, since she got the impression that it was > some kind of calculator program, and she wasn't looking for that. > Yes, I think many people would agree that the existing tutorial is a little slanted towards people who are already familiar with programming, and sometimes programming in the Linux/Unix environment. > I think there are a lot of potential improvements for Python docs. > The Language Reference is unreadable for mortals, and that means > that there is no standard reference document describing the real > fundamentals in Python, statements and operators. we just have the > tutorial for that. > > The best resource in the Python docs is that Library Reference. > As far as I understand, it's not complete, and it could contain > more examples in places, but it's very useful. > > The Lanugage Reference seems more like some kind of specification. That's exactly what it's supposed to be: guidance for implementers. > I think a *real* Python Language Guide would be great, and it could > still be a fairly short document, even if core Python has grown a > bit in recent versions. The builtins chapter in the Library Reference > (Ch 2) belongs here, and the Std Lib Ref is just for things we > import. It's really strange to document e.g. string literals and the > string class in different manuals. > What we are talking about here is a Python Language Users' Guide. > I was thinking that maybe some old paper book on Python could be > donated for this purpose, but now it seems that most of the good > ones are going to be reprinted soon, if they aren't already in the > stores. I'm really happy that they are still commercially viable, > but it would have been great if we had gotten one of these goodies > as a starting point. It's hard work to write such good books as > e.g. Martelli and Beazley did. > > Of the good books, I just have Beazley's "Python Essential Reference" > 1st Ed. nearby, but chapter 2-10 in that shows very well what I > think a Python Language Guide could look like. > > BTW... Alex is now employed by a very rich and successful company > that really owes the Python community a lot of gratitude. It's great > that they are paying the salaries for some of the very best Python > people, and let them work some for the community, but perhaps Google > could buy the rights for "Python in a Nutshell" from Martelli/O'Reilly > and donate it do the community? :) Google are very active supporters of Python already, though they don't make a big song and dance about it. You might notice, for example, that they are a Platinum Sponsor at PyCon this year, as well as being a sponsor member of the PSF. The Summer of Code also benefited Python in several ways. There are older-established companies with more Python programmers who have made hardly any community contribution - the "takers" of the open source world. I wouldn't like Google to think that the Python community isn't recognizing their support. You might also like to ask Alex what he'd feel about losing the "Nutshell" revenue stream! regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
