On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 11:37:34 PM UTC-4, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn > > <pointede...@web.de> wrote: > >>> Thomas is not typical of the Python community. We are mostly nice > >>> people. > >>> :) > >> > >> You do not even know me. I *am* a nice person, if only for the fact that > >> I do not let people suffer from their own ignorance, and I encourage them > >> to educate and enlighten themselves in order not be dependent on people > >> like you who tell them what they should think. > >> > >> So *evidentially*, *you* are not a nice person. According to your own > >> "logic", *you* do not belong in the Python community. Go away. > > > > King Gama is a nicer person than you are, and in very similar ways. > > I do not know a person called "King Gama", I do not think I need to know > them, I do not think that he is on-topic here either, and I think that you > should keep in mind that this is not a niceness contest, but a technical > newsgroup/mailing list. I for one prefer a direct, if blunt, correct answer > over a nice, evading or incorrect one any time.
Thomas, you don't have to choose between correct and nice. It's possible to be both. Even more important than being nice is being effective. Do you think your answers are achieving your goal? Are people learning from you? Are there ways more people could? I can see that you are knowledgeable, and I really appreciate the energy you put into answering questions. You are very generous with your time. But when you bark correct things at people, they don't hear you. Your helpful energy is being overshadowed by your blunt rude manner. If your goal is to help people, you are missing the mark. You say you "encourage them to educate and enlighten themselves." I haven't seen encouragement. I've seen scolding and sneering and shaming. Has anyone ever thanked you for, "There is no Javascript"? It's not helpful, it's just pedantic. Correct, yes; helpful? No. Was "STFW first" meant to be encouraging? You have a different definition of that word than I do. I understand the desire to be right, and to point out incorrect things. Heck, in writing this post I'm partly motivated by that desire. But how you say things has a huge effect on whether they are heard. If you don't care if you are heard or not, then why say anything? And if you *do* care if you are heard or not, then you have to take into account how people perceive you and your message. Has anyone ever said to you, "Thanks, Thomas! Lots of people were giving me answers, but they were all so kind and polite about it, I couldn't see what they were saying. Finally, your blunt direct manner got through to me, so now I understand." Of course not. It's absurd. Bluntness doesn't help learning. It just makes *you* feel good. Points of correctness are useless without points of connection. You have to talk to people in a way that they will hear. If you can't be bothered, then you are just wasting your time, and earning a negative reputation for yourself. But worse, you are tainting the reputation of this community. Someone comes here looking for an answer, or perhaps just comraderie, and they get greeted by a rude condescending technocrat. They don't just think, "Thomas is a jerk," they think, "Python people are jerks." That matters a lot to me. > See also: <http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing> An excellent link! Have you read it? It applies to this very case. You screwed up on this community forum. I am telling you how you screwed up. And what you just did is "whine about the experience, claim to have been verbally assaulted, demand apologies, scream, ..." ESR's post exactly describes this situation, except you don't understand how we map onto the roles he describes. Perhaps you (and ESR) think that because this is a technical forum, all that matters is technical correctness. That's wrong. This is a place that people communicate, and how they communicate matters. In fact, if they can't communicate well, then none of the technical content matters at all. I'm sure you've heard this criticism before. You seem to have made up your mind that your way is right and that all of us criticizing you are wrong. I hope you'll take some of these points to heart anyway. We can use all the helpful knowledgable people we can get. I know I can't change you. But I can help set the tone in this forum. Mostly by modeling good behavior, but occasionally by directly addressing bad behavior. --Ned. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
