On 8/21/2014 12:50 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Ben Finney wrote:
Everything You Need To Know <ey...@outlook.com> writes:
I guess I have to agree and was mistaken, though vitriol I found
unnecessary and unproductive!
You've behaved obnoxiously, as has been pointed out.
People can point out anything they like, it does not mean it is necessarily
so. Adam ("Everything You Need To Know") has perhaps posted unwisely and
clumsily, but obnoxiously?
Obnoxious (noun):
very offensive; hateful; odious; reprehensible.
What did Adam do that was *obnoxious*? Here are some of the accusations
thrown at him:
- his "fancy" video is too simple for the "skilled Python programmers" at
this forum and is "barely original";
- he posted using a "self-aggrandising name" instead of his "real name";
- he posted a link to another website (oh the horror!!!);
- his post is "spam" (commercial, unsolicited advertising);
- he posted as a member of a group instead of an individual.
And that's pretty much it.
I reject any suggestion that Adam's post is "obnoxious" or that it is spam.
It is clearly on-topic. Frankly, I am ashamed at the closed-minded
hostility demonstrated here in this thread. Ben, I believe that your
behaviour goes against the spirit of the Python Community Code of Conduct,
if not the actual letter of CoC. Can you honestly say that you have been
Open, Considerate, and Respectful in telling Adam that his post
was "obnoxious" and that his post is "not appropriate" just because it is
hosted on YouTube?
This is supposed to be a welcoming place. Does anyone think we as a
community have been welcoming to Adam?
- We jumped down his throat for a couple of minor social faux pas, like
failing to sign his post with a name.
- We displayed the most odious double-standards: we attacked Adam for
posting on behalf of a group, but when members of the PSF or the Python
core developers make an announcement or post speaking for those groups, we
accept their right to do so without question.
- We allow long-time community members to link to external forums, we accept
them including links to their own blogs and websites, but accused Adam of
being a spammer because he linked to an on-topic video hosted on YouTube.
- We've made the most egregious and unjustified generalisations, speaking
for others without their consent, by insisting that "most" of us here are
too experienced to care for Adam's post. I'm an experienced Python
programmer, I've been contributing here and on other forums for over a
decade, and I learned something new from Adam's video.
Earlier, I posted on how Adam could have, *should* have, engaged with us.
But we should have engaged with him too:
- we should have assumed good faith, instead of accusing him of being a
spammer;
- we should have been welcoming, instead of exclusionary and elitist;
- we should have given him constructive criticism for his video, since it is
on-topic, rather than being so carelessly dismissive;
- or even just ignored it, if you don't like instructional videos;
- we should be respectful of people's right to prefer video over text, as
misguided as I personally believe it to be, some people like it;
- and we should be forgiving of minor faux pas and gaffes, rather than going
on the attack as we did.
Adam, for myself, I am sorry that we allowed a few mild gaffes on your part
lead to such a hostile reception for you, but please have a belated
welcome.
Thank you for posting this Steven. As a list admin, I pretty much agree
with everything you said. Some people are caught in a negative feedback
cycle and all should step out of it and stop.
--
Terry Jan Reedy
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
