Alexander Zatvornitskiy wrote:
If your colloquial English is good enough to understand the word "bollocks" then you might begin to realize how irritating your arguments are becoming.Привет Alex!
05 февраля 2005 в 17:00, Alex Martelli в своем письме к All писал: >> AM> The fact that in Python there are ONLY statements, NO >> AM> declarations, >> What is "global"? Statement? Ok, I fill lack of "var" statement:) AM> 'global' is an ugly wart,
Ok, === def hi(): print "hello!" === What is it? Statement or declaration? After interpreter see this lines, it add information about function "hi" and it's body to his memory. Look at this: var S Interpreter see this line and add information about variable S to the memory. I don't find big difference. By the way keyword "def" is as bad as "var", from your point of view? :)
If, as you suggest, def were a declaration, then it should either not be possible to write
if __debug__:
def func(x):
print x, "is bollocks"or, if it were possible, then func would have a code object bound to it whether or not __debug__ were true.
In point of fact this is perfectly legal Python, which results in no binding to the name func when __debug__ is false, precisely *because the def statement is executable* - and it is so by design.
AM> to all intents and purposes working "as if" AM> it was a declaration. If I had to vote about the one worst formal AM> defect of Python, it would surely be 'global'. Second worsest - 'def'? :)
The reason global is a wart can clearly be seen in the following example:
>>> x = 3 >>> def f(tf, v): ... if tf: ... global x ... x = v ... >>> f(0, 5) >>> x 5 >>>
This makes it apparent that the global statement is *not* executable, the only one in the language that is not.
[...]
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, self-serving though it may be. A friendly idiot is still an idiot.
But, I am friendly, even with my opponents. I think it is my good trait.
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Why not make it even shorter by omitting it altogether. Oh, sorry, it can be as short as you want as long as it isn't actually zero length? This is insanity ...But I still think declaration of variables is good idea. But with shorter syntax. May be, smth like this: ~S, or `S or .S, or S`, S~ , S. , and so on. Of course it must be optional feauture: use it if you want or don't use if you don't want.
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Please don't insult the martellibot. He did, after all, write "Python in a Nutshell" and co-edited the "Python Cookbook", and he has established a reputation with his consistent long-term contribution to Python and this newsgroup. Instead, ask yourself why your remarks engender such a response from a pillar of the Python community. What are your credentials?
Don't be so ... I don't find the equivalent english word. Smth like: Take it more easy.
regards Steve -- Meet the Python developers and your c.l.py favorites March 23-25 Come to PyCon DC 2005 http://www.pycon.org/ Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
