On Tue, 2010-11-09 at 16:18 -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Chris McDonough <[email protected]> wrote: > >> That's perfect. It keeps the Pyramid brand, it respects the fact that > >> TurboGears is the fast way to get started, > > > > But is TurboGears the fast way to get started? I ask this because > > currently TurboGears doesn't include any OOTB application functionality > > in its core. It provides a bunch of frameworky bits that someone can > > glue together if they work hard to make an application. It has some > > batteries but the batteries are still extremely low-level. > > Haha, I've never heard TurboGears described as "low level".
Well, lower level than an application anyway. Lower level than Django, even. > There are really two kinds of users, with different notions of what "a > fast way to get started" is. One wants only the essentials and a short > manual. The other wants all the optional parts prechosen and > preconfigured. The third option, with application components, is > something TG and Pylons have never really addressed, although TG has > had db-admin and I think general admin screens at various times (until > they become obsolete and don't get replaced). I guess Django has more > of the application components, and that's one reason so many people > have been using Django. > > But certainly there's a need for a TurboGears-level framework in any > case. Many people don't want to spend hours deciding which auth > library or form library or Javascript library to use, and they want > admin screens and create-an-account-with-email-confirmation screens > out of the box. But things like blogs and registration systems are a > little big; they will always be add-on components. (Unless you're > Zope.) But as far as I can tell, TurboGears 2 doesn't have any of the things you mention above *working* of-the-box as core functionality. It does depend on SQLAlchemy, and there is some information about how to use SQLAlchemy in its docs. Its docs also show you how to use ToscaWidgets, but it doesn't have any forms configured in its quickstart. So it makes choices about a form library and a persistence system, but only as dependencies. I *think* this is because its users want it to be flexible, like a lower-level framework might be, which is where I get confused. It depends on Sprox, but there's nothing in the TG2 docs that tell you how to use Sprox. Likewise with Catwalk. There is an admin interface add-on to TurboGears 2 (http://www.turbogears.org/2.0/docs/toc.html#tg2-extensions) that uses Sprox, but it's not included in the core. Its core docs do not tell you how to use any particular JavaScript library in a TG2-specific way. So as far as what's documented as useful out of the box, TurboGears 2 itself doesn't provide *that* much more than a Pyramid paster template like "plylons_sqla" does right now. You can cobble together enough information to understand how to use all of its dependencies, but that'd be true of using them with Pyramid as well. Do you see the distinction? - C -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en.
