On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Brian Gupta <brian.gu...@brandorr.com>wrote:
> Michael, > > Would you guys consider standing up a shapado instance? > http://shapado.com/ (It's basically an FLOSS clone of stackoverflow, and > is great for Q&A type stuff.) You could stand it up as ask.puppetlabs.com, > and point new users there for questions. One of the big issues of > puppet-users, is simple the volume of emails that are blasted into ones > inbox. (Ignoring the diverse nature of the various discussions.) In > addition, I have a sense that IRC and mailing lists are a bit old-school, > and can be intimidating to new users. > We've had similar thoughts about accessibility and a Q&A site, and have been thinking seriously about a FLOSS clone of stackoverflow. Last time we had a look around OSQA <http://www.osqa.net/> seemed to be the best candidate, thanks for the Shapado link Brian. > > Personally, I don't love mailing lists, in that I don't want to have to > subscribe to EVERYTHING, to get the answer to a single question. > > I'd also like to address Scott's critique of FAQs. I think that no matter > how good and complete the documentation, there will be frequently asked > questions. It's just the nature of the beast. > > Thanks, > Brian > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Michael Stahnke > <stah...@puppetlabs.com>wrote: > >> Hey, we've been having some mailing list discussion on and off inside >> of Puppet Labs too. Obviously we have a large community that we are >> trying to appeal to, and we keep doing our best to create the >> experience for the user-base. >> >> Breaking the users list into two lists has its pros and cons. >> >> Pros: >> * Less code fragments in emails >> * Advanced users not bogged down with new user questions >> >> Cons: >> * Fragmentation of the user-base >> * Who will monitor/answer questions on a new user list? >> * New people may not learn from more experienced people, because the >> more experienced users may not subscribe to the new-users list >> >> What I really think we need, is a way to provide knowledge to new >> users in an efficient (and non fragmented) way. In the past we had a >> horrible problem with documentation all over the place, wiki issues, >> blogs from everybody and their brother, etc. Today, we have narrowed >> those problems with the Learning Puppet series. >> (http://docs.puppetlabs.com/learning/), and lots of other >> documentation improvements on docs.puppetlabs.com. >> >> The points about FAQ make complete sense. We'd like to address this >> with proper documentation and some other online presence that will be >> rolled out in the in the next quarter or so. >> >> As an interrum, could we have a wiki page where we place questions >> that get asked frequently and have no (or incomplete) associated >> documentation? >> >> http://projects.puppetlabs.com/projects/puppet/wiki/Frequent_Questions_Without_Answers >> >> >> We also hope that IRC is helpful and remains helpful. I don't often >> see RTFM comments coming out in #puppet. When I do, it's quite often >> because their exact question was already answered, with citations, and >> the user still didn't read it. Also in this thread somebody mentioned >> helping those willing to help themselves. That's a fair statement, >> but we really want to make this an accepting community to make >> everybody better at their workloads with Puppet. >> >> I hope I've attempted to answer some of the concerns. I am totally >> willing to revisit this in 90 days or so if the community thinks we >> should be handling this differently. >> >> This is also by no means designed to close this discussion, so please >> weigh in if you have opinions. >> >> Michael Stahnke >> Community Manager >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Mister IT Guru <misteritg...@gmx.com> >> wrote: >> > Good Evening Guys, >> > >> > Let me start by saying that I really admire how far puppet has come in >> the last year or so, with the launch of the Enterprise version, Puppet >> Forge and the other innovations from within Puppet Labs, and in particular >> the community participation. I love the mailing list, even though I've been >> lurking for over a year. It's this "inner shame" that compels me to raise >> this issue. I apologise if this is not the place to mention this, but hey, >> you've already got this far, so keep reading! >> > >> > I get stage fright looking at some of the "code fragments" that people >> post to the list and then say "This is how far I've got and I'm trying to >> do X" where X is something pretty complex/unique doesn't quite seem like >> best practice or something that you'll find on a general use linux box. >> While I have no problem or even issue with this, the problem I find is that >> when I tell my admin geek friends about puppet, they go to google and >> switch off when they see what they view as "buckets of work" to just get >> started. >> >> We have a lot of Puppet users on Mac, BSD, and now Windows too, so >> it's not just Linux. >> >> > >> > In a nutshell the perception and feedback I get and I feel this myself, >> is that the competency level of those whose regularly participate in this >> list, and in other internet forums may just be a bit too good. I feel as if >> puppet is lacking a sort of "nursery area". After all, everyone here is >> already a 'professional' or so we like to think! >> > >> > Would it be a good idea to have a puppet beginners list, where people >> can post dumb questions, and maybe have some patient people posting links >> to blog entries, you tube videos (something which I noticed is lacking for >> puppet, again making it hard for me to evangelise about it, to even get >> clients to look at it), and get up to speed with you guys. >> > >> > I would like a Puppet Nursery - Or failing that, can we get a puppet >> advance list? :) >> > >> > I'm just saying - It worked for a different project, that's part of how >> ubuntu started to take over the world, it just became accessible to the >> casual user. Well, there are a bucket load of causal professional linux >> admins, who I fear may dismiss taking up puppet because they just can't get >> the time together to learn or keep up with those who puppet 24/7 >> > >> > It's just an observation, with a request thrown in - If I annoyed you, >> upset you, hurt your ego or made you feel bad in any way, I'm sorry. If you >> wish to take it up with me personally, no problem, have your people call my >> people, and we'll set up the meet - I'm a big guy so bring backup! (just >> kidding, love peace and all that!) - I'm hoping to stimulate some >> conversation and debate - how can puppet be one of the first thoughts in >> the mind of someone who wants to manage from a 2 to 2 thousands machines? - >> Reach a critical mass amount casual users? Worked for Facebook, Twitter - >> not so much for Nokia but you get the point. >> > >> > SO! Techie Admin Genius People!! Let's Debate >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Puppet Users" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Puppet Users" group. >> To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > <http://aws.amazon.com/solutions/solution-providers/brandorr/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Puppet Users" group. > To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. > -- Nigel Kersten Product Manager, Puppet Labs -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en.
