I was a systems programmer working on the DRS300 at Kidsgrove.... Sent from my iPad
On 26 Apr 2013, at 13:41, "Dave Crozier" <[email protected]> wrote: > Adam, > Never knew you worked for ICL, so did I for 6 years when they took over > Singer, who I was with originally. You'll remember the yearly "October > Revolutions" then! lol > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adam Buckland > Sent: 26 April 2013 09:26 > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: RE: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > Hi Virgil, > > Late to the thread, but I have to disagree with you. Microsoft did not employ > exclusively experienced programmers, I had two other Companies (ICL and HP > Labs) under my belt before I went to Microsoft, yes I relocated from the UK > to Washington, but the interview process was more about what you were capable > of rather than what you knew (My tests were on C, MASM, Unix and compilers > and assemblers in general). > > There was as you allude to hero worship within MS towards BG and others, but > the pressure to produce fast tight code was immense, code review meetings > were the biggest bitch sessions I've ever known however the latitude given to > programming staff is great. I had a chaise longue in my office, another guy > had a baby grand piano. I was there at the end of the 80's and often wish > I'd stayed on as the guy I went over with from HP stayed an extra 5 years and > retired on his options... > > Microsoft definitely did not employ cheap labour, yes there was a kudos > working for them but that evaporated when everyone you knew worked for > them... the salary was good and the options and benefits were too... > > But then that was over 20 years ago and a lot of water has flowed under the > bridge since then.... > > Adam. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Virgil Bierschwale > Sent: 24 April 2013 13:05 > To: 'ProFox Email List' > Subject: RE: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > That is what we are told by the media. > > One of these days people are going to realize that the media is owned, > controlled, and shackled by six multinational corporations. > > > > Let me show you what was happening back in the 80's > > > > Through the architects and program managers, Gates was able to control the > work of every programmer at Microsoft, but to do so reliably required cheap > and obedient labor. Gates set a policy that consciously avoided hiring > experienced programmers, specializing, instead, in recent computer science > graduates. > > > > Microsoft became a kind of cult. By hiring inexperienced workers and > indoctrinating them into a religion that taught the concept that > metaprogrammers were better than mere programmers and that Bill Gates, as the > metametaprogrammer, was perfect, Microsoft created a system of hero worship > that extended Gates's will into every aspect of the lives of employees he had > not even met. It worked for Kim Il Sung in North Korea, and it works in the > suburbs east of Seattle too. > > > > Most software companies hire the friends of current employees, but Microsoft > hires kids right out of college and relocates them. The company's appetite > for new programming meat is nearly insatiable. One year Microsoft got in > trouble with the government of India for hiring nearly every computer science > graduate in the country and moving them all to Redmond. > > > > After studying this for ten years to see why I can't find work anymore, I > have come to realize that this is only happening in the mega corporations for > the most part. > > > > The readers of this list are not typically affected by such things as they > are self employed, and if they get their business from similar sized > businesses, they should be good. > > > > Problem is, those that get their business from the megacorporations seem to > be experiencing what the writer discusses. > > > > I first noticed this back around 2000 which is why I worked to get my way > into management and out of development. > > > > When my mother was diagnosed with cancer, I moved home to texas thinking I > could find work in Austin and ya'll know most of that story. > > > > Ten years later I find myself pigeonholed as the typical software developer > with outdated skills that he writes about in his article. > > > > All of this said though, what I finally realized was happening in 2011 and > 2012 was that the supply is greater than the demand which allows things like > this to happen. > > > > The reason that supply is greater than demand is the offshoring of jobs which > is why I fight it via Keep America At Work. > > > > That doesn't mean that I don't think that every country needs good jobs, > because I do. > > > > It is just that when you honestly pull your head out of the sand and run the > numbers, the data doesn't lie as I attempt to show in this article. > > > > http://keepamericaatwork.com/archives/210917 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ProFox [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:31 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NF] The Tech Industry's Darkest Secret: It's All About Age > > > > Sure but was it not always thus, for all types of tech professionals? > > > > It also depends on location and skill base - here in Ireland there are no > kids coming out of college with IT and development skills because they were > all told 'tech is dead, go into pharma' after the dotcom bubble. To an extent > where despite being a country under an IMF bailout with high-ish > unemployment, the Googles and Microsofts who have their European bases here > often have to recruit people from outside the country because they can't find > enough people from inside. > > > > But yes - upskill or die, as ever. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Post Messages to: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] > > Subscription Maintenance: <http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox> > http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > > OT-free version of this list: > <http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech> > http://mail.leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > > Searchable Archive: <http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox> > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > > This message: > <http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1366803078.9218.140661222095738.3C93 > [email protected]> > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1366803078.9218.140661222095738.3C930 > [email protected] > > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the > author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. 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