<< The analogy to indoor plumbing isn't entirely glib Of course it is. How can you possibly compare indoor plumbing to war? To my knowledge, indoor plumbing has never killed anyone, or resulted in civil war. How many women and children have been killed from indoor plumbing? I think you have over stepped the mark in bad taste here Bob.
I understand the point you are making, and why. But I do not see how cheapening the deaths of Iraqi civilians to an analogy with indoor plumbing moves the issue forward. Regards Dominic Burford BSc Hons MBCS CITP Third Party Developer Program Senior Software Engineer * Tel: +44 (0) 1536 495074 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies." -- Tony Hoare, Turing Award Lecture 1980 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Calco Sent: 20 June 2006 02:35 To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: RE: [OT] Images of war ! It's always interesting to hear war spoken about as something ! glorious, when those who have actually been in battle will tell you ! that it is horrific. Yet our war-supporting media is filtering out ! the disturbing images coming out of Iraq so as not to turn ! the public ! against the war. ! ! It's important to look at these images, and realize ! that people who ! are calling for continuing this war are endorsing these images, and ! calling for more of them. No sugar-coating; this is what they are ! supporting. ! ! <http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/37572/> ! ! ( -or- http://tinyurl.com/oq6qf ) It's always fascinating to listen to indoor plumbing spoken of as something civilized and wonderful, when those who have worked in sewage plants know that the shit really stinks. Yet our pro-sanitation media is filtering out the disturbing images one can easily find in any city waste disposal plant on the planet, so as not to turn the public against indoor plumbing. It's important to look at these images, and realize people who are calling for more water and sewage treatment plants are endorsing these images, and are calling for more of them. No sugar coating; this is what they are supporting. http://www.cormix.info/images/3,NGSPicturePak%2335,Sewage.jpg http://www.sas.org.uk/pr/images04/sewage.jpg http://www.pepa.com.hk/gallery/photos/pollution/SEWAGE.jpg http://www.enviro-lynx.com/stock-photography/images/Sewage%20Overflow. jpg http://www.allanindustries.com/images/Sewage-1.jpg http://www.holidaytravelwatch.net/Images/gallery/photos/Original%20Fil es/San%20Andres%20raw%20sewage%20swamp.JPG http://www.cleansafeservices.co.uk/sewage.phtm http://www.afpc.org/images2/DPIS0904/sewage.jpg http://www.geocities.com/icandigital/sewage.jpg On a serious note, appeals to emotion and impugning of motives are part of Ed's famous double standard (OK if he does it, if others do it from a different perspective they're twits); nevertheless, I should like to clarify that I am not in favor of blowing up women and children. I am in favor of blowing up terrorists and dictators, who unfortunately happen to enjoy blowing up women and children. I'm also in favor of other people -- yea, even people who aren't white and don't live in upstate New York -- enjoying economic liberty and political freedom. This would include even Iraqis. The analogy to indoor plumbing isn't entirely glib. The idea is that there is dirty work in any worthwhile civilized thing, some of which is not for the weak of stomach. The people we are engaged in fighting are literally scum of the earth---truly bloodthirsty thugs with no regard for humanity or the rules of war let alone the Marcus of Queensbury rules we're supposed to use when confronting them. This inclination to want to paint our soldiers and our leaders in that conspiratorial and clandestine light, as if the poor hapless Saddams and Zarqawis and Kim Il Sungs and mullahs of the world are innocent -- what was Bill's term? -- _casualties_ of the "warmongers" in Washington is offensive to me, but alas, people are entitled to hold their opinions, however silly. I don't support innocent people losing their lives in these conflicts---but how do you avoid that and still confront the thugs and murderers who thrive on it? No, Kofi Annan isn't the answer; not even close. You can't negotiate with these murderers. What's your bright idea? I think knocking out regimes that support them and helping the formerly oppressed people get on their own feet is a noble thing, albeit riskier than negotiating with dictators for cheap oil and turning a blind eye to their repressive regimes (which was what we did for decades previously). Anyway thanks Ed for the opportunity to clarify. - Bob ! ! -- Ed Leafe ! -- http://leafe.com ! -- http://dabodev.com ! ! ! ! ! [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ Pegasus Software Limited is a member of the Systems Union Group plc Registered Office: Systems Union House, 1 Lakeside Road, Aerospace Centre, Farnborough, Hampshire GU14 6XP Registered No: 1601542 This e-mail is from Pegasus Software Limited. The e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error you must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. Please notify the sender by e-mail or telephone. Pegasus Software Limited utilises an anti-virus system and therefore any files sent via e-mail will have been checked for known viruses. You are however advised to run your own virus check before opening any attachments received as Pegasus Software Limited will not in any event accept any liability whatsoever once an e-mail and/or any attachment is received. This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
