Ryan Petris your on a roll. I wholeheartedly agree.
On 2024-04-25 13:45, Ryan Petris via PLUG-discuss wrote:
If you're asking whether the workers got their fair share of building
a bridge 100 years ago given that it's stood for 100 years and that
it's gotten a lot of use, I'd say that it really doesn't matter. The
workers were paid a fair wage for their labor, regardless of what the
finished product was.
Lets say that I was a scientist and I was paid $1 million per year for
10 years to find a cure for cancer, and I ended up finding one. The
cure would be worth billions because it would be universally needed
everywhere, and if you were the only person/company that had it then
it would be worth whatever you wanted to charge for it. Should I as
the scientist complain that I only got $10 million out of the deal
when it's worth billions, trillions even?
If you say yes, well you're not really accounting for the risk vs
reward. Had I as the scientist not found a cure, I'd still have made
$10 million over the last 10 years and, if I were smart about my
money, I'd be able to live better than most without having to lift a
finger again the rest of my life. The company that paid me, however,
is not only out the $10 million they paid me, but all of the
associated costs of providing me a lab, a workspace, and materials
that likely cost at least 10x what I was paid over the same period.
Therefore I, as the worker, had no risk. I come to work every day, do
some work, and get paid. The company fronting the money, workspace,
etc., took a huge risk and capital investment; without that risk and
investment, the cure would have likely never been found. The reward
that they get is the offset of the risk that they took. Nothing is
ever guaranteed to succeed.
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 12:51 PM, greg zegan wrote:
Hello,
Do you ever wonder if you are really getting rewarded for all the
"value" you are providing for that "stake holder"?
If you look at the builders of a bridge for instance that was built
100 years ago when the wages were far below the
wage of today you can see that the stakeholders are now benefiting
from the labor of workers 100 years ago.
That project is still providing revenue that the builders may be
entitled to if you think about the long term value added.
thanks,
Greg
On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 12:20:20 PM MST, Ryan Petris
<r...@petris.net> wrote:
As a software developer of 15 years, I personally would not want a
union, at least not one in a traditional sense. Additionally, I've
never been in a union so maybe my understanding is wrong or
outdated, however my reasoning for not wanting one are:
* I want my salary/benefits to be based on what I personally can
bring to the table.
* Similarly to #1, if I and/or my team perform better than the rest
of the company, I want us to be recognized for that _and_
compensated appropriately.
* I don't want to start at the bottom of the totem pole at a new
company because I'm the new guy.
* I don't want to work with people that should have been let go due
to their performance but are effectively being protected by the
union.
* I don't want to be forced to strike because the union is playing
political games that I don't care about.
There's a time and place for unions; when you're in the top 10% of
national salaries, you're not in a position to need one.
All that said, I work remotely, for a company that's not based in
Arizona, and therefore am paid relatively well compared to the local
Market.
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, at 11:53 AM, greg zegan via PLUG-discuss
wrote:
would it be time to unionize or change the way business is done in
AZ?
On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:50:10 AM MST, trent shipley
<trent.ship...@gmail.com> wrote:
No. As a rule software engineers/programmers/developers/computer
scientists all see themselves as professionals who are above
unionizing and seldom or never do. I think we're seeing the effect
of Arizona being a provincial, 3rd world location for headquarters
and software development options.
It's similar to "we make the chips. We aren't friken good enough to
DESIGN the chips. They do that in NICE places."
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 9:35 AM greg zegan <gjze...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Wow!
thanks.
sure look like they are taking advantage of the Right to work state
workers.
On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 09:08:07 AM MST, trent shipley via
PLUG-discuss <plug-discuss@lists.phxlinux.org> wrote:
https://www.onetonline.org/link/localwages/15-1251.00?st=AZ
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