First: Why do you forward a personnel addressed message into
a public e-mail list? (And thus "forcing" me to pollute this
e-mail list with our none-topic gabble?)
Second: in doing so, why do you just include selected parts?
I you forward a private message, then if you have any, WHAT-SO-EVER,
good common sense (which of course also by definition could be said
to already have been lost when forwarding the message in the first
place) you would had forwarded the entire message I wrote.
I have a word for people doing things like you just did: Assholes.
(It never occurred for you that I also might claim (c) on what I
am writing? So did I gave you any permission to publish or spread
my intellectual properties? No, I didn't...)
Anyway:
Other people will now just read your selection, and that will aim
there thinking about MY writing. But for example, why didn't you
cut in a line like:
[QUOTE: of my replay to Paul]
>Afan is trying to learn PHP and is asking some
>questions that seem uninformed. In my opinion, he is providing us with
>some valuable insights into the mental roadblocks that some newcomers
>find in trying to learn PHP.
You impress me! You show lots of insight which I in my narrowed and
intolerant attitude didn't see in the first place. Indeed you are
correct in your remark here!"
[END QUOTE]
or:
"Reading it again, I agree with you. I never intended to direct
this to Afan personally. If Afan felt insulted, I am sorry."
or:
"Ok, I apologize Afan for being a bit rude. I am sorry for that..."
SO THE MAIN QUESTION IS:
Why do you kick people who already lies down?
--------
And now to what about you wrote in public about my private e-mail:
>Thanks Paul,
>you got actually why I didn't answer again to Mr. Svensson. It's not
>worth - he will not understand us "...without any programming skills..."
That's your personal interpretation of what I said! You don't know
what I _do_ think about it since you have never been asking me that
questions.
Paul had an contrary interpretation about my message, which he had
the good common sense to send as PRIVATE replay to me, NOT involving
the php-windows e-mail list with.
BUT to reply on your comment above:
I have never expressed, in any way, that you would not be able to
understand or comprehend these things (simply because I don't know
you and your abilities). What I on the other hand have expressed
is that the information you provide is not sufficient enough for
ANY PROGRAMMER WHAT SO EVER to solve your problem!
That's what I am _trying_ to tell _you_. But you just don't want to
listen to that melody, do you?
If you just states HOW the file is formatted, *I* can find a way for *you*
too extract the e-mail addresses. It might be easy, or it might be very
hard, but it could be done! But however, as another guy suggested "ask
the spam people about it", they really know "ALL" the tricks already.
>This newsgroup is made for two sort of people: who needs help and who can
>help. But, there is some people they belong to third group - they want to
be
>smart.
Well, there exists "Help!" and there exist "Help?" and
above is just your opinion about it. Isn't it?
My opinion about this matter is that this list is made fo
people with question about PHP under the Win32 platform
and not a general helpdesk.
Considering my view of the purpose with this list, you have so
far not been able to comprehend with that view (and definitely
not improving it by forwarding my private e-mail to this list...)
But as custom, most e-mail list also tolerate a little certain
deviation from the main subject (but I think I am stretching that
tolerance a little bit to far right now.)
Anyway:
I think you should try to make this distinction clear for your
self before you do any posting to any listserver what-so-ever,
try first figure out what the list is about, and then post
ON TOPIC message. (Saying this, I am perfectly aware of that
this entire e-mail is very off topic, but I will NOT continue
this thread any more in public after this.)
Extracting e-mail addresses is not on topic. Extracting e-mail
addresses is a question of principle of algorithms (or more
correctly: semantics of programming), and that's not what this
list is about, on the other hand, helping out with the syntax
of a regular expression in php for extracting e-mail addresses
might be on topic. But asking for a "generic algorithm to find
e-mail addresses" is never on topic, no way man.
You have to do your homework first! Then ask for help when you
fails to progress on your self. It exists and expression for
this: "RTFM" which is an abbreviation for "Read The Fine Manual",
were "F" not really stand for "Fine", but something else that
we don't want to tell our kids about before they have grown up.
Do you knew how many hundreds hours some guys might have spent
trying to solve a problem before they even consider to ask a
question in e-mail list like this?
Do you then realize how irritated some people can be when then
some guys comes around, who apparently not even have tried to
solve their problem, or tried to find information how to solve
their problem, just through out questions and then waits to
get things served on silver plates? Do you understand and can
you identify your self with the emotions and feelings which
then can be raised with some people because of this?
Some people really has to sweat to get to understand things,
and that is the reasons why the expression RTFM was born...
The fact people actually helps with off topic things is not a sign
that the e-mail list is mentioned for those questions/answer, but
more a sign of human kindness...
>>"...What I wrote is based on a philosophical discussion I had with ..."
>
>Criticism with help - it's ok, it's helpful.
CHEERS MATE! But you forgot to quote it in its context:
[QUOTE]
Actually above, was not meant as a criticism against
"none"-programmers,
but as a eloge to the creative mind of humans.
But I understand it can be misunderstood.
What I wrote is based on a philosophical discussion I had with
a former colleague with me about the principle of programming and
about the difficulties in learning to think algorithmically in a way
that is best suited for a computer.
[ENE QUOTE - line spacing added by me afterwards]
Which then is followed by an elaboration which then end in the
following conclusion:
[QUOTE]
So considering that programming actually is very difficult, and
considering that people who does not can program actually can
put together a program that works (weather or not it is nice
designed is not the point right now) is rather a quite amazing
proof of the human creative mind!"
[END QUOTE]
Taking the consequence of my understanding of that I been having
"a narrowed and intolerant attitude" which I "didn't see in the
"first place.", and by admitting to Paul "Indeed you are correct
in your remark here!" (all quotes are mine), I took resposiblities
for what I said and done and formulated this apologize to you:
"Ok, I apologize Afan for being a bit rude. I am sorry for that..."
>Just criticism? No, thank you.
Well, there exists basically two kinds of criticisms:
1) negative, and
2) positive
Only negative criticisms without a helping hand might be said to be
bad, but what about positive criticisms, does that also need some
more support than mere its own comments?
Which group of criticisms would you say my criticism belongs to?
1) or 2)??
It seams like you see things in the way you want to see things,
and they way you wants to hear things. Are you open to listen
to other people, what ever kind of criticism you get? Is there
really such things a "negative" criticisms a all? Isn't it about
point of view after all in the end?
Is Pauls criticisms towards me when he points out that I
am rude, negative or positive from my point of view?
Well, it depends on how I choice to interpret it. I did
choose to see it Pauls way, and I did choose to see it in
a positive way. Therefore I also did made an apologize too
you because it was proper to do so. Otherwise it would
had meant that I wouldn't had comprehend Pauls criticisms.
So, I could had continued to see it my way, and refuse to
understand it Pauls ways, then it would had been negative
criticisms, wouldn't it?
>> Well, quite nice design!, but... <yaaawn> what
>> do you want for that? A medal or what? ;-)
>
>"yaaaaaawning" for somebody's work - it shows in the best way
>what kind of person is he.
First:
I would yawn about salse&marketing too, it does not interest
me! It is _not_ out of respect, but out of _interest_. It is
in my point of view a boring activity and technical none-
interesting for me.
Second:
You never notices my comment that I did credit you for a
nice design, did you? That was also filtered away with
you pink sun glasses, wasn't it?
Third:
What was your intention? Showing off? Did you need it? Did it make
you feel better? More accepted? I don't care... I just have to show
off for my boss! Because he's is the one who gives me the pay check
every month. ;) I don't get a d#mn single nickel from this e-mail list.
What also irritates me with your reference is that it implies a general:
"Look what I did! Am I not good!?!"
I did never expressed this openly in the first case though and I
never though about it consciously in that way either, but when
thinking about it, and since you now have been provoke me to
express my feelings about it, I just have to ask about it:
Why did you post all these URL? What was the motive? Do your arguments
need authority support?? Are your argument not able to survive with the
inherent power on their own? What was the f##king purpose?
I respect people in this e-mail list not from what they claim to
have been doing, but from how much accurate and correct things
they write about in this list.
As from my point of view, anybody can make such a reference you
just made and then claim: "I did that!" But I did believe you on
your words! I didn't tried, or even hinted, to misscredit you on
that behalf.
Doesn't that, if nothing else, tells that I DID credit you with
respect of honesety in the very first place?
BUT the funny thing in all this sorrow-ness is the interesting
implication that also follows from this: YOU DON'T KNOW MY SKILLS!
Considering you, I can bee a teenager who just learnt to
do programming and just learnt some simple file filtering
algorithms and now have a huge ego that's really needs to
show off, OR I can be a senior developer with long experience
of programming in I wide variety of languages and paradigms.
Nobody is able to tell the difference!
If I start to post code in this list to prove my point, any
one are free to ask; "so where did you steal that code from?"
It wont prove sh#t about _my_ abilities. What on the other
hand can be used to determine my "status" is to read and
judge on my statements, but as I already said: I don't really
care, since they paycheck is brought by my boss, and not by
you or anyone else in this list (which only holds true under
the condition that my boss does not actually subscribing on
this e-mail list! But I am pretty sure he doesn't. ;)
----
But as to come to an end and conclusion of all this
idiotic, nonsense and bullshit writing of mine:
Yes, I think you just credit your self as an asshole in my eyes,
And yes, I _am_ an asshole too! But I have never intended to be
anything else either... ;)
And I am still sorry for my first rude jump on you, but
that is history now, but this (= the jump on me) is another
matter. And for that I think you own me an appoligize...
And recall: I did end my private mail to you and Paul with:
[QUOTE]
The rule of thumb is: "Every one is an idiot, including my self!"
[END QUOTE]
How many times do we have to proven this rule for each other?
----
You could had choice to accepted my apologize in the first place,
but you just had to push it a little bit further, didn't you?
SENSE MORAL: don't kick people who lies on the ground - they
might very well still bit your feet.
This ends, and closes my writing, in public about what I have
to say about this matter.
Sorry for polluting the list guys.... :(
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