Hi Stef, sure :)
But just before let me comment the other posts: yes you’re right. Pharo and Smalltalk follows a different philosophy and therefore some common terms like „app“ and „ide“ doesn’t make sense or have to be reinterpreted. You can always say: look, I have a super cool concept, dive In but you have to forget every thing else. OR: I offer you a new concept, look how it can help you to solve daily tasks and getting jobs done. Both perspectives have value to me. And I don’t say Pharo should priories the one or other. But with my post, I’m taking the perspective of I need a tool to solve problems, in my given environment, my colleagues, my customers, my IT infrastructure, my constraints. Pharo is well in being the superior new concept. We know that. All what I want give you, the Pharo experts the feedback that I’m very happy them that Pharo is on the way for having value for the other perspective, a tool for solving problems in daily work. Not more not less. Cheers Hans > Am 23.11.2017 um 09:54 schrieb Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.s...@gmail.com>: > > Hi hans > > Thank you for this analysis. > Now do you want me to state a question? > > Stef > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:23 AM, Hans N Beck > <hnb...@educational-concepts.biz> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Shiny for the R language is a very useful technique to create responsive >> applications based on Web technologies - with all the advantage the big >> ecosystem of JS libraries offers. >> With Shiny in mind, I’m working with Teapot on Pharo. Dashboard like use >> interface with Processing (exactly: p5.js) and other things is in mind. >> From my job, I do a similiar thing. But because of our IT policy, I have to >> work with Python (using Tornado server and Dash) and SignalR for Microsoft >> .Net (exactly: ASP.net) >> >> So I can compare. And if I remember the work with Pharo many years ago, I >> can state the following: >> >> - The Microsoft Visual Studio offers a lot. It has many functions, >> assistants, components and libraries and a huge bunch of documentation which >> support to concentrate on the problem. Details are hidden, and even >> deployment is a matter of minutes. But this professionallity has the >> downsize of complexity, and to understand whats going on is not always easy. >> But if you manage this complexity you can get professional apps in a >> reasonable time. >> >> - Python is flexible and dynamic. I use the Anaconda distribution with >> Spyder which has good support for interactivity and debugging. Many >> libraries of good quality are available in the python world, you can tackle >> any problem. Also here: support professional software development in good >> time is given. A little bit more than Microsoft, the Python things are more >> understandable and more lightweight. >> >> Pharo, in its incarnation today (6.1) comes very near to this. Also Pharo >> has many libraries, a good to use „IDE“ and professional tools for debugging >> and profiling. BUT: Pharo is far more transparent. The interactivity and the >> availability of every sourcecode in combination with the debugging >> capabilities inherent to Smalltalk are helping to understand every thing. >> And Pharos today documentation address now relevant but not to complicated >> problems, cover all important tools and libraries and supports starting at >> beginner level. Pharo has lost the nature of a expert or nerd secret magic >> wizard tool. >> >> In this direct comparison, I had some wishes for the future of Pharo: >> >> - Deployment: it should be possible to deploy a „single click“ application, >> independet if native GUI or Web App or Shiny like >> - More standard solutions: many libraries have examples, but they are >> sometimes to trivial or just irrelevant for daily practice >> - More product oriented: libraries should have more wizzards or application >> pattern. Imaginary example: for Teapot or Seaside would it be fine if there >> were some code generator for a 4 Tile dashboard app, or a data viz app, >> themes like in hugo or bootstrap. I may be wrong, but the nature of many >> libraries or tools is „make anything possible“ instread of „I help you to >> write your product“. Do you understand what I want to say ? >> >> Anyway. I can state: Phare IS on the right way. It is. Much much progress >> the last years. Thank you all ! And if it becomes more and more a product >> for professionals (in industry), the future will be top ! And this doesnet >> mean to give up the computer science part. Pharo is cool to try concepts and >> ideas. So Pharo has BOTH sides, which does it make great. >> >> Cheers >> >> Hans >> >> >> >> >> >> >
