Frank, purely for the matter of argument, not in any disrespect to you
or your reasoning, but didn't you just do the same (appeal to authority)?
I mean - who says that we're not hard wired as Paul indicated? Are there
studies to support that this specific part of our nature can be modified
through proper nurture?
Who said that this problem while having ethical aspects in it, does not
stem from the way the human "nature is", as you put it?
You really would benefit from coming over here and spending here more
than just a vacation, may be live here for some time. It may prove very
interesting.
Boris
On 12/10/2013 6:50 AM, knarf wrote:
I don't agonize but I am concerned. And my concern is that the
blatant sexualization of women in the media is degrading to them.
If you don't see it by now you never will.
Btw what you're doing is called the appeal to authority and it's a
logical fallacy.
Who says that? Please cite authors and studies. If you're going to
pull "studies" out of your hat I'll call you on it.
Who says we're hard wired that way? And how do they know it? And just
because we're hard wired (which I don't buy) how does that make it
right?
Finally, nature doesn't "dictate" anything. It just is. In any event
this isn't a natural problem, it's a human problem. It has to do with
how we humans treat each other. It's an ethical issue.
But, as with so many discussions that we have Paul, we've reached a
stalemate. I don't think either of us will change the mind of the
other.
:-)
Cheers, frank
Paul Stenquist <[email protected]> wrote:
Paul via phone
On Dec 9, 2013, at 10:35 PM, knarf <[email protected]>
wrote:
I know I said I was done with this thread. Apparently I lied.
;-)
But I had to jump in to completely disagree with your assertion
wrt
the underlying premise.
To my mind the premise is that there is a huge disparity in the
way
that women and men are portrayed in the media including the arts.
Women tend to be sexualized far more than men and often in
denigrating and offensive ways. That includes but doesn't have to
mean nudity.
People can point to exceptions but that doesn't change the fact
that
women are sexualized far more often and in different ways than
men.
This doesn't mean that sex is dirty or wrong or that it doesn't
make
the world go 'round.
A bit of balance would be nice, that's all...
But those who study human sexuality contend that while men take
considerable pleasure in female nudity, most women are not deeply
aroused by the male body. Seems to be the way we're wired. Why
agonize over it? Nature doesn't dictate balance in all things.
Cheers, frank, back to spectating - for now
Walt <[email protected]> wrote:
I think the underlying premise -- that to portray a human as a
sexual
being is to inherently denigrate other aspects of their
humanity --
is
a false one.
All of this calls to mind a recent discovery for me: a woman
named Susan Oliver. I just happened to see her in an episode of
the Andy
Griffith
Show that was on the TV at the bar where I worked and was
struck by just how beautiful a woman she was, and as it turned
out, a woman at the
bar
happened to know her name.
So, I started doing a little reading up on her on the internet,
and
as
it turned out, she was an absolutely fascinating person.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Oliver
Now, to be sure, my initial impression of her was that she was
just drop-dead gorgeous -- which is an observation I wouldn't
likely make
of
a male, no matter how handsome he might be. My interest just
isn't captured by attractive men. So, the very fact that I
noticed Susan Oliver at all could be laid at the feet of sexual
objectification,
or
sexism, whatever you want to call it.
But, as I started to learn more about her and her
accomplishments, I
developed a more wide-ranging kind of admiration for her. The
fact
that
my initial interest in her was sparked by sexual attraction
didn't
in
any way detract from my appreciation of her as an accomplished
woman any more than learning more about her considerable
achievements
minimized
my appreciation of her as a smokin' hot sex kitten.
It
“Analysis kills spontaneity.” -- Henri-Frederic Amiel
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