If I remember the SF manual correctly, the .PCA file format is Sound Forge's proprietary lossless compression algorithm; it's particular to Sound Forge as a spacesaver.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions No, I'm encoding initially at 44,100 double speed tape then sampling down to 22.500 or whatever it is. I've never had a problem with disks being filled, probably because I don't save in wav formats. I don't know much about it, but it appears that the .pca (perfect clarity audio) is some kind of a compression scheme. Since I double speed everything that goes into the Book Port, that file is reduced by at least half and actually a little more than half by the time it hits my flash card. I have a 2 gig flash card in there, so no worries about ever running out, especially since I'm compressing the audio. Truthfully, considering the space I save, and considering the quality of NLS tapes in the first place, 24 KBPS sounds absolutely fine for what I'm doing. I always change them to mono as part of the digitization process anyway. I was encoding at 16 KBPS when I had a lower capacity flash card in the Book Port. Sixteen KBPS is acceptable for an NLS book or magazine, but it's not pretty, and it's not what you would want to quietly move to a CD for later reading some day down the road. I always knew that as soon as I was done with the book or the mag, I'd delete it. As for taking out references to the cassette, in the magazines, when I digitize the table of contents, I even take out that "side one tone 3" type stuff. What's left is the story name, the page number on which it appears, and the reading time. I refuse to tinker with those files much more than that; after a while, you start getting to a point where you're putting more work into the digitization process than it's worth, unless you're going to keep the book or magazine as some kind of lovely little keepsake thingy. So far, I haven't read a book good enough to warrant keeping it around forever and ever. Nolan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:21 PM To: PC audio discussion list. Subject: RE: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions What are you writing at first 22,050hz at 16Bit or smaller? in stereo, you could only go about 6 hours and 40 minutes at that rate before you'd fill a fat 32 disk with 2 gigabytes. 24K mp3s don't really sound that good, the smallest I do is 32K or 32K at the lowest vbr rating of the encoder engine I use, can't spell frahnhoffer but I tried, but, again, on the BP 24K mp3s I guess are ok. One mp3 at that length would be a little unwieldy to me, but that is just individual preference, and the bp does keep track of where you're reading in any case. What is a *.pca file? I am going to give GoldWave a look to see how they use noise reduction or how their native noise reduction works, it's worth the$50 because of the support to keyboards the program continues to have as well. Bruce, you're a good promulgator of the program, :) <grin> Curtis Delzer At 04:12 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote: >No, I'm doing many of the same things you mentioned already. I'm >getting >rid of beginnings and endings of all sides, blowing off all >references to >cassettes in general. > >When I'm done, I have a single MP3, 24 KBPS, that works nicely in the >Book >Port. > >I dug out the deck, and the crosstalk is no more. > >Sixteen sides is the most I've ever digitized--made for a heck of a >file, >but it worked. > >I guess I could do all that region creation stuff, which makes sense, >but I >save each side as a .pca file, then I combine them and render them as >a >single MP3. I don't even keep the stuff about "continuing on page >such-and-such" at the beginning of every side. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer >Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:54 AM >To: PC audio discussion list. >Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions > >I initially forgot a couple steps, very important. After you've >recorded your "stereo" file with each track/side in the left and >right channels, you need to select the entire file and copy it to the >clip board and paste it into another window, one which is mono so the >sound will be in the center. OOPS, sorry about that. >You can do all the processing if you wish first before you do the >pasting into your mono file, but it is important if you can, to put >markers while the initial recording is being made when the cassette >sides end so you can find them in an 8 side file, for example, which >is just about the limit for fat32 (at 44,100Hz at 16bit stereo), if >you use that format on your hard drive. So, let's say you've recorded >your stereo file, 2 cassettes long which is about 3 hours, (probably >2:56 or so), select it all, then paste it into your mono file. First, >the left channel, then the right channel. When you reverse the right >channel, after you've done that, your 11 hour file will look like >this; again after you've sampled down to 22,050Hz in mono, side 1, 2, >5, 6, 7, 8, 3, 4, (from least to most time, left to right. I label >each region paying very close attention to the narrator so the >numbers coincide, but I don't keep him saying "side 2, side 3, etc. >and also I don't keep, "this book is up to 4 sides per cassette, or >"so many pages on so many sides," in digital format, (again just my >opinion, it is not needed, and, "to skip such and such in this book, >fast forward until a beep is heard, stop at that point to hear x x x, >or the beginning of the book." >The markers, though you made them going forward, after you've >reversed the right channel, the markers will be close to where the >"reversed" sides begin' or' end, but you'll have to hunt a bit. Make >new markers at the beginning and end of where you wish to create your >regions, so in that way if the left or right end of the region area >gets lost or unselected, you can readily find it again. >I just recorded, finished, "Undue Influence," by Steven Martini >tonight, while the Rose Bowl was going on, GO TEXAS! :) They did win, >during side 10 about 30 minutes before I finished the initial >recording before processing. > >At 04:47 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: > >Thank you for such kind words, and I will do what I can to reveal > >what I do to get rid of noise in sound forge. > >Here is a message I sent to Nolan about it, but I'll amplify. > >Well, this is "off list," so no prob, and as far as replying, hey, > >what are we here > >fore, to help one another? Damn right! So, I enjoy it since I've > >done > >many hundred > >books and know how valuable it is when you hear something which, > >going in sounded > >like that unmentionable schtuff you mentioned, but coming out > >sounds > >fantastic! I, > >presume, you do have the sound forge noise reduction plug in, so if > >you do, then > >you're going to find that it will do a magnificent job, especially > >if > >you can get > >it to sample the sound in such a way that it automatically picks > >the > >"hiss," and/or > >the "noise" it is suppose to hear, and not what you don't want it > >to > >reduce like > >the voice. Since you've recorded in SF before and know how to > >reverse, what I do > >is make a region for each side of each cassette, and then have sf > >write those regions > >to specific *.wav files, and then use something else to make the > >mp3s > >at 32K or 32K > >with vbr so the sound is as good as it should be. I record at > >44,100Hz and then change > >the sample rate to 22,050, (NOT RESAMPLE) just change the sample > >rate > >so the pitch > >halves, to resample would not change the pitch but you'd loose > >quality, and then > >apply noise reduction since the noise you wish for the NR to hear > >would be at the > >correct pitch as well. > >I hope some of this rambling helps. You can change the amount of > >noise reduction > >in the nr reduction plug-in, rather than use the preset of "0.250 > >seconds (a quarter > >second) (for fast computers) and then, since it's mode 1, you can > >then change the > >amount of supression in db. The "sample noise" checkbox should be > >checked, and when > >you first have it sample a noise, it auto unchecks itself since the > >nr plug-in has > >found the sample and made it's configuration and to that noise it's > >sampled, it's > >set. Change the db slider to, let's say, minus 40 DB and while > >listening to the "preview" > >you'll be amazed how wonderfully it will work. Then, save the > >setting, but make sure, > >before you save that setting, that the sample checkbox is then, > >checked, since if > >you use that setting in the future for another minus 40 db sample, > >you wish it to > >sample at least a quarter second of noise automatically, and by > >default. Many guys > >forget that checkbox and figure that since the slider is set for > >minus 40 db, it > >will get rid of the noise, forgetting that it needs to sample first > >some noise before > >it can apply it's magic to what you wish it to hear, not a voice or > >music. Plan to > >use a selected part of the noise when you make the nr plug-in hear > >noise, (the beginning > >of each side of a book is plenty of room for it) and you'll be > >really > >pleased, I > >guarantee. > >That dec, will make a huge difference though the handi-cassette is > >good one track > >at a time, even has better or less cross talk one track at a time, > >but is tedious > >that way. Recording off that dec in your garage (when you set it > >up) > >the right channel > >is tracks 4 and 3 sides 1 and 2 of the tape, and you know that if > >you > >first record > >1 cassette, that if you press tab it will put the left channel by > >itself into a way > >which you can work with separately. Press tab until you hear only > >the > >right channel, > >then reverse it all at once. Then you should down sample, > >normalize, > >noise reduce, > >make regions for sides (which for best results should be noise > >reduced separately) > >and then have sf make your *.wav files. > >Getting to those sliders for minus db can be problematic, though, > >fortunately I have jfw 5.0 and it's native sound forge > >configuration > >files, so the sliders can be found. You must play around a good bit > >in the plug-in configuration, trying up and down arrow to find out > >which field(s) get changed, but when you do and learn which does > >change that slider from about minus 12.5 db which is a default > >setting when using the preset for "fast computers with 250 > >millisecond capture, you then will be amazed how well it works, > >again, especially, if it just hears noise such as tape hiss or hum > >before the recording begins. > >I hope all this helps. Take care and write to let me know how > >you're doing. > >Curtis Delzer > > > >At 02:06 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: > >Thanks for the outstanding advice regarding the plug-in and the > >handi-cassette. I knew it was a piece of something unmentionable > >when it > >came to reproducing stereo sound; I need to hunt up my old cassette > >deck > >stored in a box in the garage, and I'll do that this weekend. > >I wonder if we could communicate via e-mail off list so I can get a >somewhat > >better handle on how to even begin to use that plug-in. I can't > >even get > >the auto trim crop to trim the silence off both ends of the > >recording > >appropriately--obviously operator incompetence alive, well, and at > >work in > >front of my keyboard. <smile> > >Again, Curtis, thanks for replying. I know it took time out of > >your life, > >and silly and goofy as it sounds, any time I get a reply from > >anyone, it's > >kind of a significant thing, especially when I stop and recognize > >how busy >I > >get and how easy it is to just say "poor slob; hope someone > >somewhere can > >figure that out for him," and hit the delete key. So when I say > >thanks for > >writing back, I truly am grateful. > >Where do I even go to activate the plug-in? I assume I have to > >select some > >tape hiss; that's easy enough to do. > >And do you do that before or after you resample? > >Nolan Crabb > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] or > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >] > >On Behalf Of Curtis Delzer > >Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:18 AM > >To: PC audio discussion list. > >Subject: Re: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions > >Sorry, but the HANDI-CASSETTE has a lot of cross talk by default, > >and nothing in sound forge can correct this. A better way is to use > >a > >regular stereo cassette dec and record tracks 1 and 4, then turn > >the > >cassette over and then record sides 2 and 3. This will make a file > >about an hour and a half long, (probably closer to about 84 or 85 > >minutes give or take). In SF you can press tab and get to either > >the > >left or right side, and you wish to reverse the right channel as > >you > >know. If you have the SF noise reduction plut-in, it is superlative > >at getting rid of the hiss. The commercial cassette stereo recorder > >has a much better cross talk capability, even a non expensive one. > >Somehow, the HANDI-CASSETTE, in stereo, is pretty lousy in this > >regard. If you use the sound forge noise reduction plut-in, use a > >facility in it which lets you sample the hiss in such a way that it > >is beyond the beginning of the tape and just before the narrator > >begins, and save the setting. You can tweak the settings to get > >that > >hiss up to 99 db below what it is, and if you do it right, the hiss > >will be virtually gone leaving the recording even better than the > >original, I know, I've done it several hundred times. > >Good luck! > >Curtis Delzer > >At 05:18 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: > > >Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this. > > > > > >I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use > > in my >Book > > >Port. So here's the question: > > > > > >I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce > > some of the > > >crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo. (I record > > using a > > >handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, > > then >reverse > > >tracks 3 and 4. I then resample the recordings so the speed is normal, > > >combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I > > later suck >into > > >the Book Port. > > > > > >How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least > > the hiss >if > > >not the crosstalk? > > > > > >Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my > > source. > >Trust > > >me, I get that already! > > > > > >Thanks for any help you can give. > > > > > >Nolan Crabb > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > > > >http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other > > >lists we offer, visit us on the web at > >http://www.MosenExplosion.com > >_______________________________________________ > >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >http://www.pc-audio.org > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other > >lists we > >offer, visit us on the web at > >http://www.MosenExplosion.com > > > > > >At 02:26 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote: > > >Nolan, I have had good results in removing crosstalk by using the > > >Noise Gate function in the SF8 menu. That's Noise Gate rather > > >than > > >Noise Reduction. You need to tinker with the decibel setting - > > >somewhere between -30 and -35 worked best for me without cutting > > >off > > >the speech at the end of phrases, and you still get crosstalk > > >sometimes during the speech, but it made a big difference in the > > >final > > >product. > > > > > >I endorse Curtis's suggestion (posted later) of using a > > >commercial > > >stereo cassette deck, and resampling and reversing tracks to get > > >the > > >final result. It's a little more technically intensive, but the > > >results are worth it. I would love to know Curtis's secret for > > >removing as much hiss as he does with Noise Reduction. I could > > >never > > >achieve those results, which I am sure is more a comment on the > > >operator than on the product. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Nolan Crabb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: "'PC audio discussion list. '" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > > >Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM > > >Subject: Sound Forge 8 and Noise Reduction Questions > > > > > > > > >Greetings, all, and thanks in advance for reading this. > > > > > >I'm using Sound Forge 8 to digitize NLS four-track books for use > > >in my > > >Book > > >Port. So here's the question: > > > > > >I'd love to reduce some of the tape hiss I get and to reduce some > > >of > > >the > > >crosstalk that comes about when I record in stereo. (I record > > >using a > > >handi-cassette as my player, record the tapes at double speed, > > >then > > >reverse > > >tracks 3 and 4. I then resample the recordings so the speed is > > >normal, > > >combine the tracks and save them as single MP3 files that I later > > >suck > > >into > > >the Book Port. > > > > > >How do I institute the plug-in that would help reduce at least > > >the > > >hiss if > > >not the crosstalk? > > > > > >Please, no messages about how I need a different player as my > > >source. > > >Trust > > >me, I get that already! > > > > > >Thanks for any help you can give. > > > > > >Nolan Crabb > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > >http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other > > >lists > > >we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > >http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other > > >lists we offer, visit us on the web at > > >http://www.MosenExplosion.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >http://www.pc-audio.org > > > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other > >lists we offer, visit us on the web at > >http://www.MosenExplosion.com > > >_______________________________________________ >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >http://www.pc-audio.org > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists >we >offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com > > >_______________________________________________ >PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... >http://www.pc-audio.org > >To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other >lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. To see what other lists we offer, visit us on the web at http://www.MosenExplosion.com _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list is a service of MosenExplosion.com. 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