sKevin, Thanks, that was very clear. Honestly, I wasn't actually confusing the CD/R and CD/RW issue in terms of playability with the other issue, don't worry. Sorry if I gave that impression. It's only that your explanation was my first information about these concerns, so I was trying to express what I was sort of still "processing," so to speak, and might've sounded confused about this when I was actually getting clear about it.
But my main thanks is for clarifying that you meant you can't write or copy audio files just as they are on your hard drive (.wma, .mp3, etc.) and expect them to play on most CD players, so you have to be careful how you do this, e.g., what type of compression you use and what sorts of players you expect to play the CDs you make on. So let me reassure you that this isn't what I'm up to, though it's nice to know you can do something like that. I was only talking about burning regular old audio CDs. I'm operating at a pretty lay level with this stuff, just a regular sort of consumer level, if you see what I mean. And if I ever find an affordable and accessible burning program that also permits duplicating a CD, then some of this will become moot, because I won't have to rip a CD at all for this purpose, but will be able to just stick the original CD into the drive, do something, then stick in a blank CD/R into the drive and make a copy. So this is all I'm up to in that regard. thanks again. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats Hi Daniel. Okay, I'll try and explain the point you're not getting at the moment. You don't have to burn a CD as an audio Cd for it to play in some players. There are some players that can handle discs that are burned in the data CD format and contain hundreds of MP3 files. So, in answer to your question, no, the files are not converted when you burn them to CD unless you choose to burn them as an audio CD. An audio CD is one which will play in any standard CD player where all music has been converted from whatever format they were in originally into CDDA format. A data CD can contain files of any format so they can be MP3, WMA or WAV files. This disc can then be played in a computer or a player that can handle discs that have been burned as data CD's. Where the confusion comes in with disc types is that older CD players cannot play rewritable discs but they can play write once discs or CDR as they are known. Don't confuse disc type with the format of the disc as described above. Regards. Kevin E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats > Thanks, Kevin. that helps somewhat. I'm afraid I haven't been succinct > and/or clear enough in explaining the things that are confusing me. I'll > read some more program documentation and see if I can grasp certain concepts > better, especially the variables for setting options for whichever ripping > format I choose to employ. I don't understand most of the options in the > CdEx properties tab for this, nor in Windows Media Player's equivalent > settings, and it's too overwhelming to figure out how to best ask all the > questions I have. > > One thing about which I can ask for clarification . First of all, I > certainly understand that it's important when burning CDs to use whatever > types of disc are compatible with players. I know some CD players can't > play some discs people burn on their computers. But I have yet to figure > out whether that's actually an issue about which type of disc to use (that's > what I thought it was about) or, as you guys seem to be suggesting, what > format you've created the files on your PC with. Here's what I don't get: > Whether you rip your audio tracks to .mp3 or .wma, don't they all get > converted to .wav files by the programs you use to burn them back to CD? In > which case, how would it threaten incompatibility to have used .wma instead > of .mp3? Can you see why I don't understand this cautionary advice? By the > way, I mostly rip audio tracks with an eye toward either sending them to > friends or eventually burning them onto a homemade CD to give to friends, > also. I don't really rip audio tracks in order to substitute my PC for my > perfectly good stereo system. I do use a Discman type portable player > sometimes, and being a few years old, it doesn't seem to play any CDs I or > friends have created ourselves, even though the more recent model changer in > my stereo has no problem with the same CDs. But I always expected that, > having heard much about it already in reading about all this here and there. > > thanks, > daniel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Lloyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats > > > Hi Daniel. > > CDEX will allow you to use a number of encoders to rip your music and allow > you to use constant or variable bit rates. The WMA format is available but > not all bit rates are supported for the version of the encoder included. > > Saying that, the default Lame encoder is regarded as one of the best MP3 > encoders around and in comparison tests I've done myself and read about, it > out performs WMA with most music genres. > > With regards to your question on burning the compressed MP3 or WMA files to > CD, well, you have the choice when burning to either create an audio CD for > play in a standard CD player which will convert the compressed file into WAV > and then CDDA or you can burn the files to a data CD which will burn them > exactly as they are on your hard drive. That is, compressed. There are > increasing numbers of players on the market now, both portable and genuine > hi-fi, that will play these data CD's with your MP3 music. This means you > could have 10 albums or more on a single disc. Kelly's point was exactly > this that MP3 is still the most popular compressed format and most well > supported. You wouldn't want to rip a collection of CD's into WMA and find > that you couldn't play them on anything else but your computer. Maybe you > might now but chances are you'll want to take them with you at some point > and want to invest in a portable player. Having them ripped into MP3 will > give you a much greater choice of player when that day comes. > > Regards. > > Kevin > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:17 AM > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats > > > > Hi Kelly, > > thanks for responding. I have a copy of CdEx, though I forget the > version. > > But it doesn't offer any .wma possibilities at all, only .mp3 and .wav. > > Does this mean I have an old version of it? Someone else loaded it onto > my > > system for me. If I can update and see a more comprehensive array of > > compression options, that'd be reassuring. > > > > Also, I confess I don't understand about wither a compressed file can play > > on a CD player: From what I've learned so far, I have the impression that > > if you burn an .mp3 or other compressed music file to a CD, it will be > > converted, either manually or, in some programs, automatically, to a .wav > > file to be burned. Isn't this so? If it is, then what does it matter > > whether the file on your hard drive is .mp3 or .wma? > > > > Please explain further. I'm educating myself with your help. > > thanks, > > Daniel > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kelly Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "PC audio discussion list. " <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:28 PM > > Subject: Re: Understanding and comparing compression formats > > > > > > the options you mentioned with Windows media ripping are also available in > > ripping MP3s with CDEX. remember it is in Microsoft's interest to make > > windows Media appear to be a much more attractive experience than the > > infinitely portable and compatible MP3 format. With MP3 encoding, files > can > > be encoded on various levels of quality, with fixed or variable bit rates > in > > full stereo. > > > > One thing to consider is the likelihood that the files you rip can be > played > > on other people's computers with different kinds and versions of software > > and on portable devices in the present and future. many CD players can > play > > MP3 files but only a fraction of these can also play Windows Media files. > > to verify this, just go to bestbuy.com and review the portable CD players > > available for sale. Most play MP3 files but only one can also play > windows > > Media files as well. > > > > I encode most of the music I rip in MP3 at 256 bit in full stereo at the > > very highest quality. > > > > Kelly > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "PC-Audio" <Pc-audio@pc-audio.org> > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:39 AM > > Subject: Understanding and comparing compression formats > > > > > > > I've just been learning how to rip music from CDs to my hard drive using > > > several different programs, and the one that interests me most at > present > > > is > > > Windows Media Player because of the variety of formats it offers. > > > > > > As I explore and test these formats, one thing confuses me: You can rip > > > Windows Media Audio files about six different ways, not counting the > > > lossless option. Now, I'm aware that .mp3 ripping can be adjusted to > use > > > bit rates higher than the default 128 in order to restore a little of > the > > > information that a lower bit rate strips out. > > > > > > but understanding that is simple compared to the range of .wma options. > > > Here's the main thing that puzzles me. In the WMP menu for setting your > > > rip > > > options, there are *two* sets of .wma options, each with its own range > of > > > sound quality level. > > > > > > First is the .wma choice that uses a slider to provide you with,as I > > > recall, > > > three levels of sound quality. I've ripped the same track with all > three, > > > and not only listened to them-- the differences are audible to me, > > > although > > > pretty subtle compared to the difference between any of them and a less > > > compressed lossless or uncompress .wav version. Still, for saving > space, > > > I > > > appreciate the compression, so I remain interested. > > > > > > Okay. So the smallest .wma sound quality level creates a really small > > > file, > > > much smaller than the same tune ripped to .mp3. And it doesn't sound > any > > > worse than the .mp3, was my impression. The next higher levels create > > > larger files, with the highest quality level creating a file for any > given > > > track that's about the same size as a 192 bit rate .mp3. If I go this > > > way, > > > I'd suppose that's the method I'd use, so you get a little better sound > > > quality than an .mp3 for the same file size. > > > > > > But then, right beneath this on that menu, there's a variable bit rate > > > .wma > > > option, again set by a slider, but this time starting at 0 per cent and > > > going up. Zero per cent of what? And, more to the point, if this has > to > > > do > > > with changing bit rates (doesn't the other method, I wonder? How else > > > would > > > you change quality except by varying the bit rate?) where are the > > > indications for *what* bit rate this slider takes you through? > > > > > > So that's it. I'm really wondering about this stuff as I try to settle > on > > > a > > > preferred rip method to set for my usual use. Does anyone understand > > > whatever it is I'm not getting about these two adjustable .ma formats? > Is > > > there anywhere to read a simple primer about them? I don't feel the > need > > > to > > > do research if someone can just explain what it is I'm not > understanding. > > > But just in case there's some online information about this that would > > > clarify it all, that would be fine, too. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _______________________________________________ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 > > > _______________________________________________ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 _______________________________________________ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
