Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2016-02-17 13:25:58 -0500: > On 02/17/2016 09:28 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > Excerpts from Chris Dent's message of 2016-02-17 11:30:29 +0000: > >> A reason _I_[1] think we need to limit things is because from the > >> outside OpenStack doesn't really look like anything that you can put > >> a short description on. It's more murky than that and it is hard to > >> experience positive progress in a fog. Many people react to this fog > >> by focusing on their specific project rather than OpenStack at > >> large: At least there they can see their impact. > > > > I've never understood this argument. OpenStack is a community > > creating a collection of tools for building clouds. Each part > > implements a different set of features, and you only need the parts > > for the features you want. In that respect, it's no different from > > a Linux distro. You need a few core pieces (kernel, init, etc.), > > and you install the other parts based on your use case (hardware > > drivers, $SHELL, $GUI, etc.). > > Yes. This. > > > Are people confused about what OpenStack is because they're looking > > for a single turn-key system from a vendor? Because they don't know > > what features they want/need? Or are we just doing a bad job of > > communicating the product vs. kit nature of the project? > > I think we are doing a bad job of communicating the product vs. kit > nature of OpenStack.
Yeah, I tend to think that's it, too. > > >> This results in increasing the fog because cross-project concerns (which > >> help unify the vision and actuality that is OpenStack) get less > >> attention and the cycle deepens. > > > > I'm not sure cross-project issues are really any worse today than > > when I started working on OpenStack a few years ago. In fact, I think > > they're significantly better. > > > > At the time, there were only the integrated projects and no real > > notion that we would add a lot of new ones. We still had a hard > > time recruiting folks to participate in release management, docs, > > Oslo, infra, etc. The larger community and liaison system has > > improved the situation. There's more work, because there are more > > projects, but by restructuring the relationship of the vertical and > > horizontal teams to require project teams to participate explicitly > > we've reduced some of the pressure on the teams doing the coordination. > > > > Architecturally and technically, project teams have always wanted > > to go their own way to some degree. Experimentation with different > > approaches and tools to address similar problems like that is good, > > and success has resulted in the adoption of more common tools like > > third-party WSGI frameworks, test tools, and patterns like the specs > > review process and multiple teams managing non-client libraries. > > So on a technical front we're doing better than the days where we > > all just copied code out of nova and modified it for our own purposes > > without looking back. > > > > We also have several new cross-project "policy" initiatives like > > the API working group, the new naming standards thing, and cross-project > > spec liaisons. These teams are a new, more structured way to > > collaborate to solve some of the issues we dealt with in the early > > days through force of personality, or by leaving it up to whoever > > was doing the implementation. All of those efforts are seeing more > > success because people showed up to collaborate and reach consensus, > > and stuck through the hard parts of actually documenting the decision > > and then doing the work agreed to. Again, we could always use more > > help, but I see the trend as improving. > > > > We've had to change our approaches to dealing with the growth, > > and we still have a ways to go (much of it uphill), but I'm not > > prepared to say that we've failed to meet the challenge. > > Agreed on your points above, Doug. > > -jay > __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
