On 07/24/2014 06:44 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote: > > On Jul 24, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Robert Collins <robe...@robertcollins.net> wrote: > >> On 25 July 2014 08:01, Sean Dague <s...@dague.net> wrote: >> >>>> I'd like us to think about whether they is anything we can do to make >>>> life easier in these kind of hard debugging scenarios where the regular >>>> logs are not sufficient. >>> >>> Agreed. Honestly, though we do also need to figure out first fail >>> detection on our logs as well. Because realistically if we can't debug >>> failures from those, then I really don't understand how we're ever going >>> to expect large users to. >> >> >> I'm so glad you said that :). In conversations with our users, and >> existing large deployers of Openstack, one thing has come through very >> consistently: our default logs are insufficient. >> >> We had an extensive discussion about this in the TripleO mid-cycle >> meetup, and I think we reached broad consensus on the following: >> - the defaults should be what folk are running in production >> - we don't want to lead on changing defaults - its a big enough thing >> we want to drive the discussion but not workaround it by changing our >> defaults >> - large clouds are *today* running debug (with a few tweaks to remove >> the most egregious log spammers and known security issues [like >> dumping tokens into logs] >> - AFAICT productised clouds (push-button deploy etc) are running >> something very similar >> - we would love it if developers *also* saw what users will see by >> default, since that will tend to both stop things getting to spammy, >> and too sparse. >> >> So - I know thats brief - what we'd like to do is to poll a slightly >> wider set of deployers - e.g. via a spec, perhaps some help from Tom > > This one would be a good place for that conversation to start: > https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91446/
Right, kind of already been doing that for the last few months. :)
Assistance moving the ball forward appreciated. I think we really need
to just land this stuff in phases, as even getting through the minor
adjusts in that spec (like AUDIT change) is going to take a while. A
bunch of people have been going preemptively on it which is good.
-Sean
--
Sean Dague
http://dague.net
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