On Jul 24, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Robert Collins <robe...@robertcollins.net> wrote:
> On 25 July 2014 08:01, Sean Dague <s...@dague.net> wrote: > >>> I'd like us to think about whether they is anything we can do to make >>> life easier in these kind of hard debugging scenarios where the regular >>> logs are not sufficient. >> >> Agreed. Honestly, though we do also need to figure out first fail >> detection on our logs as well. Because realistically if we can't debug >> failures from those, then I really don't understand how we're ever going >> to expect large users to. > > > I'm so glad you said that :). In conversations with our users, and > existing large deployers of Openstack, one thing has come through very > consistently: our default logs are insufficient. > > We had an extensive discussion about this in the TripleO mid-cycle > meetup, and I think we reached broad consensus on the following: > - the defaults should be what folk are running in production > - we don't want to lead on changing defaults - its a big enough thing > we want to drive the discussion but not workaround it by changing our > defaults > - large clouds are *today* running debug (with a few tweaks to remove > the most egregious log spammers and known security issues [like > dumping tokens into logs] > - AFAICT productised clouds (push-button deploy etc) are running > something very similar > - we would love it if developers *also* saw what users will see by > default, since that will tend to both stop things getting to spammy, > and too sparse. > > So - I know thats brief - what we'd like to do is to poll a slightly > wider set of deployers - e.g. via a spec, perhaps some help from Tom This one would be a good place for that conversation to start: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91446/ > with the users and ops groups - and get a baseline of things that > there is consensus on and things that aren't, and then just change the > defaults to match. Further, to achieve the 'developers see the same > thing as users' bit, we'd like to make devstack do what TripleO does - > use defaults for logging levels, particularly in the gate. > > Its totally true that we have a good policy about logging and we're > changing things to fit it but thats the long term play: short term, > making the default meet our deployments seems realtively easy and > immensely sane. > > -Rob > -- > Robert Collins <rbtcoll...@hp.com> > Distinguished Technologist > HP Converged Cloud > > _______________________________________________ > OpenStack-dev mailing list > OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev _______________________________________________ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
