On 8/21/2018 7:55 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Matt Riedemann wrote:
[...]
Regarding microversions I was mostly thinking of the various times
I've been asked in the placement channel if something warrants a
microversion or if we can just bug fix it in, like microversion 1.26.
I then generally feel like I need to be defensive when I say, "yes
it's a behavior change in the API so it should." That makes me
question how stringent others would be about upholding
interoperability concerns if I weren't around. [...]
The issue with that kind of distrust by default is that it's not
sustainable... In a large project you can't have every individual review
everything because they trust noone else.
It's not distrust by default. I said, "thinking of the *various times*".
Which means more than once. But I also said I was asked for input, and
failed to reflect on that until I actually wrote it down. That's my fault.
That is why in OpenStack we instituted a culture of "trust by default,
then escalate to PTL or TC if shit ever hits the fan". And the fact is,
the PTL (at team level) or the TC (between teams) rarely had to
arbitrate conflicts, because there aren't so many conflicts that are
escalated rather than solved by consensus at the lower level.
Sure, but I'm sure there are also times where people don't escalate
simply because they want to avoid conflict. There have been many times
where I've questioned another nova core's +2/+W on a change and rather
than make a big deal out of it, I push that frustration way down but it
comes out in other ways, like distrust later. Again, that's my fault,
but I suspect I'm not the only person in OpenStack that does this. On a
good day I'll ask the person directly in IRC, or failing that on the
review, "hey why did you do this? Did you think about X?".
Restoring "trust by default" between placement and the rest of Nova
seems to be the root of the problem here. In a community, it's generally
done by documenting general expectations and shared understandings, so
that you create a common culture and trust by default people to apply it.
What would you suggest we do to improve that in this specific case?
Trust falls! I don't know, Thierry. Likely just improved direct
communication with the people involved rather than back-channeling and
distrust/hurt feelings which lead to "sides" being setup. As I said
above, direct communication can be hard because of the confrontation and
awkwardness so it's easier at times to take the shitty way out and just
complain about so-and-so to someone else that thinks the same way you do
rather than try to gain understanding and listen to other viewpoints. We
(I) go over this every retrospective but still fail to learn from and
practice it.
--
Thanks,
Matt
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