Arie, I had to read your post a couple of times rub my eyes and read it again. I don't know why you felt this was an attack on you or google maps for that matter. Shai merely made a point that google maps would not be optimal in this case and rightly so. The access points towards the Cupsogue flats continually change and ever since Hurricane Sandy it has become even more volatile. About a month ago I myself got caught in a deep channel that a few weeks before was not as deep and so it is a continuous learning process. Shai's experience in seeing and rescuing many birders who have run into trouble is one reason for his obvious frustration with regards to accessing the flats.
Directions have been spelt out in several e-mails and posted to the list serves on how to try and navigate out to the flats. For example, Ken and Sue Feustel wrote a useful e-mail with directions not too long ago. In addition, these same set of directions are posted on the RBA (see Friday's report). So unless someone is mapping out every day the changes in the shifting mud and channels on a goggle map, it really serves no purpose. The directions spelled are the best bet once a visitor arrives at Cupsogue County Park. Moving on to your other comments, I don't know why it is patronizing for out of state birders if they are not comfortable with getting onto the flats, to wait for some help. Sounds more like common sense to me and I know if I was an out of town birder and someone was willing to take me out to the flats, I would be grateful. I am not too proud to accept help. I and many other Long Island birders have many times taken folks out to the flats and no one has yet complained. You mention the clam folks figuring it out, well those clam folks are not walking around with thousands of dollars of optical equipment and that is why they cross channels that get up to their armpits in water. Then there are the ones who come in from the inlet side via boat anchoring out there and working the flats. They don't have to cross the deep channels that birders and photographers do when heading in from the parking lot. Finally, let me add that Shai Mitra, has been most gracious and generous with his time and knowledge over the years helping many birders both locals and non locals in birding the flats at Cupsogue. As recently as last week it was he who led the charge during a still reasonably high tide, that enabled many birders to get the Red-necked Stint. Ask those birders if they felt "patronized". Sent from my iPad On Jul 5, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Arie Gilbert <[email protected]> wrote: > I asked for input to update and improve the map - You interpreted that as a > license to be obnoxious. Bravo > > You don't like google maps? So what? Others ~do~ even when they are less than > optimal. > > Furthermore to suggest that out of state, or any birders for that matter, > wait around hoping for someone to guide them is patronizing. > > The folks with the clam forks figured it out. I'll bet persons carrying > optics will be capable as well. At least the map gives them an overview of > the area and a starting point. That you believe people are somehow > hobbled by them and unable to make alternative navigational choices is > arrogant. > > You alternatively, could have chosen to be helpful. > > > Arie Gilbert > North Babylon, NY > > WWW.Powerbirder.blogspot.com > WWW.qcbirdclub.org > > On 7/5/2013 3:13 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote: >> People, >> >> Before someone gets hurt, please note that the routes marked on this map are >> entirely incorrect. The areas indicated as the flats are not in fact the >> flats that can be reached on foot; the crossing point is marked in the wrong >> place and goes in the wrong direction; the "trail through marsh" marked in >> blue is not a route I have ever seen a human traverse; etc., etc. >> >> I'm going to make one more point here, before I completely lose patience >> with this thread. Google maps are not the solution to this problem! If you >> are not comfortable birding this area without your every step being >> pre-plotted via gps, go to the parking lot and tag along with someone who >> knows what they are doing. >> >> Again, Google maps are not the solution to this problem! I will re-quote >> what I posted the other day: >> >> The flats around Moriches Inlet do not have a unique pair of coordinates. >> In fact, the good spots to check in this area don't even really have a >> finite set of coordinates. They change from minute to minute, day to day, >> and year to year, and they are densely interspersed with places you probably >> don't want to be. What you want are directions to Pikes Beach and Cupsogue >> County Park (these are at the west end of Dune Rd, just east of Moriches >> Inlet, Suffolk County, Long Island), and then some good judgment in >> exploration of the tidal marshes and flats to the north of these well marked >> localities. The Red-necked Stint has been seen in many places in the five >> acre area directly north of the main parking lot at Cupsogue. The portions >> of this area that exposed ! >> at low t >> ide but devoid of marsh vegetation are what people are referring to as "the >> flats." >> >> >> >> Experience has shown that birds originally found in this area have often >> moved over to another patch of habitat a bit to the east, directly north of >> Pikes Beach (and vice versa); examples include a Red-necked Stint in July >> 2000 and a Curlew Sandpiper in June 2012, as well as innumerable less rare >> but individually distinctive shorebirds. Binary coordinates are not what you >> need--remember, there is an ecologically critical third dimension involved >> here, the vertical one, which allows for substrates to be variably immersed >> and exposed, according to tides and weather. >> >> >> >> Shai Mitra >> Bay Shore >> >> >> >> >> From: [email protected] >> [[email protected]] on behalf of Angus Wilson >> [[email protected]] >> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 2:28 PM >> To: NYSBIRDS-L >> Cc: Arie Gilbert >> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Red-necked Stint questions >> >> Hi Arie, >> >> I don't think your Google map annotations are plotted quite right and I am >> not savvy enough to modify them. The dredge island that some folk camp on >> and is used as a landmark for birders is to the RIGHT of the shallows you've >> circled. The flats suitable for birding are SE of this other island. To put >> it another way, they just left (west) of the words "Incorporated >> Village...". The channel you have marked is far too deep to cross. One has >> to proceed further up the narrow spit of sand from where your brown and blue >> lines intersect and then cross very carefully on a NE vector from there. On >> the falling tide the channel can be waist deep or greater with some current >> so caution is advised. The 4WD road (red) and beach path (brown) are correct. >> >> Cheers, Angus Wilson >> -- >> NYSbirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- >> >> >> Washington Monthly magazine ranks the College of Staten Island as one of >> “America’s Best-Bang-for-the-Buck Colleges” >> -- >> NYSbirds-L List Info: >> Welcome and Basics >> Rules and Information >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> Archives: >> The Mail Archive >> Surfbirds >> BirdingOnThe.Net >> Please submit your observations to eBird! >> -- > > -- > NYSbirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3345 / Virus Database: 3204/6468 - Release Date: 07/05/13 -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
