Well, an iLEC CO is hardly a data center. Plus you have to be a CLEC to get in.

I’ve built out CLEC spaces in many COs. They invariably connect via fiber to a 
CLEC core data center, where they invariably run their own GPS clocks. Plus 
they run rubidium clocks in the racks at the CO, so they can freewheel for days.

-mel via cell

On Aug 8, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:


Frontier COs is the easiest example.No antennas and no time service. Yes, they 
provide BITS, but BITS isn't time.

I was also speaking specifically about installing GPS antennas in viable 
places, not using a facility-provided GPS or NTP service.



-----
Mike Hammett
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________________________________
From: "Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org>
To: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:36:46 AM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

I’d be interested in an example of a Colo that does NOT provide GPS-based NTP 
even if they don’t let tenants install their own. I’ve never, ever seen one.

 -mel

On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:


My facility experience ranges from prohibited to infeasible. I must not be in 
the right facilities.


Yes, many radio platforms have GPS for timing. Some expose it for external time 
and timing purposes, some do not. Naturally, they do have a pretty good view of 
the sky.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
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________________________________
From: "Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org>
To: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:05:55 AM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

It works fine, and is an industry standard. you have to mount the GPS antenna 
near a window with sky visibility, or on the roof. Many point-to-point 
microwave radios have GPS built in to obtain accurate timing for transmission 
multiplexing.

 -mel

On Aug 8, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net> wrote:


"We use these exclusively in data centers"

How well does GPS work inside the datacenter?



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
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________________________________
From: "Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org>
To: "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 2:26:37 PM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Mark,

You might consider setting up your own GPS-based NTP network. Commercial 
Ethernet GPS-sourced NTP servers, such as the Time Machines, TM1000A, are as 
little as $400. Or you can roll your own using a Raspberry Pi or similar nano 
computer with a GPS module and antenna. We use these exclusively in data 
centers now rather than depending on Internet NTP servers, primarily for 
security, because financial transactions in e-commerce can be sensitive to 
false time information. There are also a variety of NTP-based Internet attacks, 
so if you can block NTP at your border you’ve eliminated another attack surface.

-mel via cell

> On Aug 5, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
>
> 
>
>> On 8/5/23 20:17, Chris Adams wrote:
>>
>> It's the NTP pool people you need to talk to - the .freebsd. bit is just
>> a vendored entry into the pool (more for load tracking and management).
>
> Yes, Andreas clarified in unicast. Will do. Thanks.
>
> Mark.



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