> On Feb 16, 2022, at 4:46 PM, Michael Thomas <m...@mtcc.com> wrote: > > > On 2/16/22 1:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: >> What is the embarrassment? > That in the tech center of the world that we're so embarrassingly behind the > times with broadband. I'm going to get fiber in the rural Sierra Nevada > before Silicon Valley. In fact, I already have it, they just haven't > installed the NID. > Mike > > I will provide another specific example albeit not San Jose but similar enough. I am in Loudoun County less than 25 minutes from Ashburn, VA. My best option is fixed wireless from All Points Broadband (hi Tim) which is 15/3mbit/s costing $199/mo (they have cheaper, slower tiers available).
Verizon FiOS serves a dense developer-built community less than 1 mile down the street from me, but everyone else outside of the towns and developer-built communities have almost zero options. Similar to the San Jose examples, we are near some of the most dense connectivity in the world. Travel 20-30 minutes in certain directions from Ashburn and you’re quickly seeing farms and limited connectivity. Ryan >> >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:28 PM Michael Thomas <m...@mtcc.com >> <mailto:m...@mtcc.com>> wrote: >> >> On 2/16/22 1:13 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: >>> I'll once again please ask for specific examples as I continue to see the >>> generic "it isn't in some parts of San Jose". >>> >>> On the note of the generic area of San Jose, I'm all but certain this has a >>> lot to do with California and its extraordinarily complicated and near >>> impossible accessibility to obtain CLEC status. This makes competition >>> pretty much impossible and makes the costs of operating one extraordinarily >>> high. I'm obviously not going to be one that claims that government is >>> good or bad, just pointing out a certain correlation which could >>> potentially be causation. >> Sonic has been installing fiber in San Francisco and other areas, but they >> are really small. Comcast can't be bothered that I've ever heard. The only >> other real alternative is things like Monkeybrains which is a WISP. It's >> really an embarrassment. >> Mike >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:52 PM Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com >>> <mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2022, at 13:14 , Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >>>> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Because literally every case I've seen along these lines is someone >>>> complaining about the coax connection is "only 100 meg when I pay for 200 >>>> meg". Comcast was the most hated company and yet they factually had >>>> better speeds (possibly in part to their subjectively terrible customer >>>> service) for years. >>>> >>>> >An apartment building could have cheap 1G fiber and the houses across the >>>> >street have no option but slow DSL. >>>> >>>> Where is this example? Or is this strictly hypothetical? >>> >>> There are literally dozens (if not thousands) of such examples in silicon >>> valley alone. >>> >>>> I am not seeing any examples, anywhere, with accurate data, where it's >>>> what most consider to be in town/urban and poor speeds. The only one that >>>> was close was Jared and I'm pretty sure when I saw the map I wouldn't >>>> consider that in town (could be wrong) but again, there's gig fiber there >>>> now. I don't remember if he actually got his CLEC, or why that matters, >>>> but there's fiber there now. >>> >>> Pretty sure you would have a hard time calling San Jose “not in town”. It’s >>> literally #11 in the largest 200 cities in the US with a population of >>> 1,003,120 (954,940 in the 2010 census) and a population density of 5,642 >>> people/sq. mile (compare to #4 Houston, TX at 3,632/Sq. Mi.). >>> >>> Similar conditions exist in parts of Los Angeles, #2 on the same list at >>> 3,985,516 (3,795,512 in 2010 census) and 8,499/Sq. Mi. >>> >>> I speak of California because it’s where I have the most information. I’m >>> sure this situation exists in other states as well, but I don’t have actual >>> data. >>> >>> The simple reality is that there are three sets of incentives that >>> utilities tend to chase and neither of them provides for the mezzo-urban >>> and sub-urban parts of America… >>> 1. USF — Mostly supports rural deployments. >>> 2. Extreme High Density — High-Rise apartments in dense arrays, >>> Not areas of town houses, smaller apartment complexes, or single family >>> dwellings. >>> 3. Neighborhoods full of McMansions — Mostly built very recently >>> and where the developers would literally pay the utilities to pre-deploy in >>> order to boost sales prices. >>> >>> Outside of those incentives, there’s very little actual deployment of >>> broadband improvements, leaving vast quantities of average Americans >>> underserved. >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:05 PM Brandon Svec via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org >>>> <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: >>>> What is the point of these anecdotes? Surely anyone on this list with even >>>> a passing knowledge of the broadband landscape in the United States knows >>>> how hit or miss it can be. An apartment building could have cheap 1G >>>> fiber and the houses across the street have no option but slow DSL. >>>> Houses could have reliable high speed cable internet, but the office park >>>> across the field has no such choice because the buildout cost is >>>> prohibitively high to get fiber, etc. >>>> >>>> There are plenty of places with only one or two choices of provider too. >>>> Of course, this is literally changing by the minute as new services are >>>> continually being added and upgraded. >>>> Brandon Svec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:36 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >>>> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: >>>> OK the one example you provided has gigabit fiber though. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 8:41 AM Tom Beecher <beec...@beecher.cc >>>> <mailto:beec...@beecher.cc>> wrote: >>>> Can you provide examples? >>>> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo&ab_channel=NANOG >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo&ab_channel=NANOG> >>>> >>>> Our good friend Jared could only get 1.5M DSL living just outside Ann >>>> Arbor, MI, so he had to start his own CLEC. >>>> >>>> I have friends in significantly more rural areas than he lives in ( >>>> Niagara and Orleans county NYS , between Niagara Falls and Rochester ) who >>>> have the same 400Mb package from Spectrum that I do, living in the City of >>>> Niagara Falls. >>>> >>>> This is not to say that rural America is a mecca of connectivity; there is >>>> a long way to go all the way around regardless. But it is a direct example >>>> as you asked for. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >>>> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote: >>>> >There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far >>>> >worse off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”. >>>> >>>> Can you provide examples? >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 3:51 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org >>>> <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> > On Jun 2, 2021, at 02:10 , Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa >>>> > <mailto:mark@tinka.africa>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 6/2/21 11:04, Owen DeLong wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> I disagree… If it could be forced into a standardized format using a >>>> >> standardized approach to data acquisition and reliable comparable >>>> >> results across providers, it could be a very useful adjunct to real >>>> >> competition. >>>> > >>>> > If we can't even agree on what "minimum speed for U.S. broadband >>>> > connections" actually means, fat chance having a "nutritional facts" at >>>> > the back of the "Internet in a tea cup" dropped off at your door step. >>>> > >>>> > I'm not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying that easily goes down >>>> > the "what color should we use for the bike shed" territory, while people >>>> > in rural America still have no or poor Internet access. >>>> > >>>> > Mark. >>>> >>>> ROFLMAO… >>>> >>>> People in Rural America seem to be doing just fine. Most of the ones I >>>> know at least have GPON or better. >>>> >>>> Meanwhile, here in San Jose, a city that bills itself as “The Capital of >>>> Silicon Valley”, the best I can get is Comcast (which does finally purport >>>> to be Gig down), but rarely delivers that. >>>> >>>> Yes, anything involving the federal government will get the full bike shed >>>> treatment no matter what we do. >>>> >>>> There are plenty of urban and suburban areas in America that are far worse >>>> off from a broadband perspective than “rural America”. >>>> >>>> Owen >>>> >>>
